I guess I should start off by telling you a little bit about my situation. My husband has been playing WoW for 3 years now, nearly every night. We have been married for 11 years and have five beautiful, incredible children together. (I know, I know -- I'm allowed to be biased about my kids!).
I will admit that my husband had a predilection for gaming -- but it was more like... he'd buy a game like Ages of Empires, play it until he beat it, then wouldn't game for a year or more. So, you can imagine how unconcerned I was when he wanted to give WoW a try.
In the last three years, I've watched him go from having varied interests and passions (ie-politics, college football, religion, woodworking... etc.) to being a ghost of the man he once was. Because he is still "functioning" -- meaning he still works, though not at the same level of performance he once did and doesn't log in until after the kids go to bed most of the time (*my* rule!) -- it took a long time for me to realize that I wasn't overreacting -- he really does have a problem.
I, of course, tried everything. And of course, nothing has worked. Finally, I spoke with our church leader about it -- I felt like it was destroying my faith in God, living with my husband's gaming addiction. He called my husband in and spoke to him briefly and this Sunday we're supposed to meet together with him on Sunday.
So this last week my husband is making an effort to spend time with me. He has only logged in tonight while I was away at some meetings. I know what he's doing, though. I know he's doing this to prove to our church leader that he doesn't have a problem and he can keep it under control. But we've been this route before and it lasted a couple weeks before he was gaming every night again (often he falls asleep in front of the computer). His toons are big ones, he's a member of a guild... I don't see how he can't be sucked back in.
I guess I'm doing a sanity check here and asking if it's unreasonable for me to expect that he should give up the game and do any addiction treatment (if necessary) before we can work on rebuilding our marriage?
I feel like as long as that game remains on the computer, no matter how long he keeps it to just playing a couple nights a week... it's still the sword hanging over that tenuous thread that is our marriage.
It's taking me a while to see where I have enabled him and how I've been trying to "fix" him. I'm ready to stop doing that. If he (again) refuses to give up the game completely, then I will be setting firm boundaries -- not in his gaming, I will no longer try to control that (I will be removing the "bans" placed on playing on Sundays -- our Sabbath -- and playing while the kids are still awake) -- but an understanding that though I will not be leaving him (for the sake of the children and for financial reasons), our marriage becomes one only of convenience. I will be (and already have begun) moving on with my life.
I love him. I love him so much that every time he logs in and starts chatting with his guild buddies it is like a knife in my chest. He doesn't light up for me or the children the way he does for those strangers. (And he deludes himself by believing that because the members in his guild are also members of our faith that it's okay.) If there comes a time when he is ready to give up this game, I am ready and willing to reconcile. But I can't keep waiting for that to happen. I can't keep hoping. I can't keep believing that "this is it" when he takes a night or two off from the game of his own volition (which has happened only a handful of times in the 3 years he's been gaming).
Anyway. Thank you for "listening". I wish I had found this site sooner. For so long I felt like I was the only person out there suffering from this kind of life. Sadly, now I have two friends who are going through divorces because of this game.
~Randi
misplaced, You are not alone, many people and families suffer because of this addiction. It is not unreasonable of you to expect of him to give up this game totally, in fact it will be the only way you will get your husband back. The game and everything related to it has to be removed , else it will keep dragging your husband back into that fantasy world. Sadly getting him away from it will be hard. He has to want it himself, he has to realize what it is doing to his marriage and life. As long as he feels his life remains manageable he will keep playing. You seem to understand very well it should no longer keep your life on hold too and you should indeed not wait for him to turn around. Stop enabling him in any way you can, do not make him comfortable while playing, like bringing him something to drink. As you have seen WoW is a game with a very addictive reward structure and a strong social bonds with other players. At first it is a fun game but when a player hits the maximum level the troubles start. Then increasing time is needed to do the endgame quests and raids. Sadly the game has no end and you can keep doing it endlessly. You are hurt if you see him light up for those strangers but to him they are not strangers anymore. They are his friends, his mates in combat, they need each other to accomplish the goals in the game. But no matter how big or good his toons are in the end they are just part of a fake life which drags him away from real life. I wish your church leader will be able to help you with this on the Sunday meeting. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -------Mahatma Gandhi.
Hello misplaced - I know exactly how you feel. When I found this website, it was like the life preserver I had been looking for for years. I felt so alone in my struggles with this game! My husband started playing World of Warcraft nearly 4 years ago and I was in the same position as you - I did not think anything of it because he was a gamer before and had always been able to keep it in check. But WoW was a different beast altogether. The games he played in the past had an end, unlike WoW. WoW also had this social part that kept him feeling like he needed to be there aEUoefor the guildaEU. Innocently at first, I just saw that he was really into this new game and it looked cool, so I decided to try it with him. He was so excited I joined him and we loved playing together. But it began to consume our lives. We BOTH got hooked and, nearly 3 years later, we attempted to quit. I was able to stay away for the last year - he was not. :( Recently, I have gotten sucked back in because I canaEU(tm)t stand him playing every night and me not being a part of his aEUoeworldaEU. Even though I agree to play, I still know this game is bad for us and want it gone! I had to realize, like you, until this game is out of our lives 100%, we will never truly be free. There is no middle of the road with online games like this. Also, you husband being high level in the game and being part of a guild only requires that he spend MORE time in the game to achieve goals - not less. It is the way the game is set up: WoW sucks you in with quick rewards and levels at first, and then slows down so the player has to invest more and more time to maintain the same frequency of reward. It is a highly manipulative game design. There is a big difference between a console game - which has an end, a pause button, that is single person problem solving; and online aEUoeCyber WorldsaEU like WoW - which is endless, socially manipulative, and extremely time consuming. If you have any questions at all about the game and how the mechanics can be addictive, please feel free to ask. Trust me, I have experienced it all. I know exactly what you are talking about when you say your husband lost interest in anything but that game. These games become all-consuming. Yes, I do believe he is trying to placate to you by taking breaks from the game. My husband and I have both tried this tactic on each other in our various attempts to quit. He is living in denial, and until you can break his denial - there is no progress to be made. The good news is that once the denial is broken and he accepts help, recovery is fully possible. It will take work, but your wonderful and loving husband will come back to you. He is still in there somewhere, believe this! Do not lose faith! My husband and I have been together as long as you have - about 12 years now - and I have to believe that we are stronger than this mechanical trash. Time reveals all that is true and eliminates all that is false. Your love & marriage is true and this game is false. Once he is able to see that, recovery is possible. Good luck in your struggles and keep strong. Please keep coming back here and keep us updated. Please donaEU(tm)t give up hope.
Until we are tested, how do we know if we will pass?
Hi misplaced, No you are not asking to much, you ask what every normal person wants: attention. I can relate to your situation, I have been there but like I said in earlier posts: You can not heal his addiction, he has to do it. He has to realise what he is doing. Now he is behaving like a good boy, sure. He may even keep it up a few weeks, but he will drop back to his old behavior. When you talk with him (with or without help). make a deal. set days and times he can play. Wait a little and watch him break the rule he agreed to. Now you have a point because he cannot deny the deal he made and the promise he broke.
Thank you so much for your support. I can't tell you how much it means to me -- especially after the discussion we had today (my husband and I). He very calmly and nicely (my husband is not a man quick to temper) told me that while he realizes that he's been playing too much, he still thinks he ought to be able to play the game once and a while. He also admitted that he has 6 level 70 toons (though he "only plays one"). As well as this he explained to me that he didn't see why he should have to give up the game when I haven't done the things he's asked me to do (ie -- be better with a budget, be better at housekeeping). Apparently I need to perfect myself before he feels that I'm worthy of giving up the game. He didn't say that... but is that not what it means? That I need to be the perfect wife before he can consider removing the game from our marriage? None of our words were heated. I refrained from crying and honestly told him that I did so because it hurts even more when he's unmoved by my pain. At least I have a clear picture of what I'm facing when we see the Bishop on Sunday. ~Randi
~Randi
I am sorry, but how does your housekeeping and bookkeeping have anything to do with his obsessive gaming habits? This just shows how far addicts will go to defend their drug of choice. You threatened to come between him and his game and he reacted by making crazy conditions that no person could live up to - just so that he could keep playing. Trust me, you could be Mrs.Doubtfire. Super Nanny, Pam Anderson, and Alan Greenspan all wrapped up with a bow - and it would never be enough so he would quit WoW. I have said it before and I will say it again: Addiction is illogical. It doesnaEU(tm)t matter how many compelling arguments you have for him to stop, until his denial is broken, you will get nowhere. You may want to try setting up a gaming schedule with him to help him break his denial, which has worked for a lot of people here. Try this: When you meet this the Bishop, take that chance to use him as a neutral party. Have your husband make a weekly play schedule for himself - days and hours. Just tell him you want to know when he will be spending time with you and the family, and when he can be left alone to play his game. This sounds far, right? Now, once he has made the schedule, add up the hours and point it out to him - remember, over 20 hours a week is a part time job! In front of your Bishop, your husband has agreed to this and it is now your "Contract". Now, sit back and wait - wait for him to break his agreement with you! It may take a couple weeks, but he will be back to his old tricks in no time. If he is truly addicted, he will not be able to help himself. When he does, feel free to get as mad as you like. He has broken his promise to you and he needs to examine his behavior. He is cutting into the time he agreed to spend with his family, and why would he do that? Did he want to hurt them and neglect them? No, of course not. If you love your family, you don't want to hurt them. Now, point out that YOU have not just controlled his actions, THE GAME has. Therefore, he is out of control. He will try to minimize his behavior, deny it, blame everyone but himself - but in the end, he will have to own it. I hope this helps! :)
Until we are tested, how do we know if we will pass?
Hi Randi. Your stipulations for him to quit are rediculous! Really. He needs to show he's willing to give up and help you out so you have free hands to sit and budget or time to clean the house. He should look at it that way too. How can he expect so much after putting in so little. I'm sure he could sell the toons he doesn't play and contribute to counseling sessions or something. There is usually more beneath the addiction than we first realize. My husband is going through counseling, as I am. Seperately. I want to make sure he fixes his issues first before I try to mend completely I've walked your road, and we're nearing 1 year of recovery. it's been hard, and a fight sometimes, but if he believes your marriage is worth it, he'll walk away and contribute more to the family he helped you create!
"This is the end...." The Doors
I am separated from my wife rite now, and i was given info on this website by a marriage counselor. I cant blame WoW for what started our marriage problems, we have a lot of issues to work through. I can say that it did make it worse, and I could not make any progress until I gave up the game. And I had to see that I had decide that it was bad for me. When she left, I was glad for a while. Nothing she could do would get me to stop. Her attempts at getting me to stop or something only made me resentful, and my addiction also seemed to cause her to do crazy and outrageous things, and we determined (through counseling) that she was simply trying to get my attention. Right now I feel a lot of guilt, because I neglected my family because of WoW. We are still in counseling, and I have no idea if our marriage will work out, but I have a lot more hope than I did. Even if it doesnt, i still cant play WoW or it will eat up the rest of my life. I have to work these steps for myself. We seem to be communicating a little better. I dont know how much help i can be from my perspective, but I know about 12 step programs, and i know that it would be helpful for you to work steps. Dont decide what he should do, work his program so to speak. Work them for yourself, because you may be just as powerless over Warcraft as he seems to be, just in a different way. There are a lot of posts on these forums that should be helpful.
Misplaced - sorry to hear of your troubles. I have to wonder though, in reading your article, if its an addiction or a different issue for him. Is it that he is addicted to the game or avoiding you? I think thats a fair question for you to ask him. Is it fair to expect him to give up the game completely BEFORE working on your marriage? Honestly , no its not. Addiction, if that is the case with him, isnt an ON/OFF switch - it usually takes a long time to heal from such things and putting off "repairing" your marriage until he unilaterally corrects the issue isnt fair - either to him or to you. If left to his own devices, he wont be able to suceed. He needs your help. I would respctfully suggest that maybe more of a compromise through progressive partnership and forgiving work together would be a solution. Addicts seldom if ever respond well to ultimatums. You describe your marriage as hanging by a "tenuous thread" - perhaps his gaming isnt the ONLY issue. His comments about housekeeping and bills arent nice, but he is likely just lashing out because he feels he is under attack. Partner with him. Be a coach and a partner and not a critic. Ease him off of it and maybe go to couples counseling with a professional therapist. Its easy to be consumed with jealousy when a spouse or loved one seems to put the virtual world above the physical one and those struggling with addiction may not see the real damage they are doing until it is too late. Consider his point of view. Through his addiction he is seeing you as demanding he do everything you want, and that you want him to be "perfect" before you will change. Now, dont misunderstand - thats NOT reality, but from what you have written that may well be how HE perceives the situation. At any rate, if you truly believe that he can work through this, he is going to need your patience, love and most importantly, your partnership in getting off the game. Read through these forums and you will see stories of people who struggle for weeks or months, sometimes years to break this addiction. Its seldom ,if ever, a quick solution. Good luck, God bless, and please keep us updated on your situation.
"There are no great men. There are only ordinary men, capable of meeting great challenges."
-Adm Wm F Halsey
Six level 70 toons equates to the following: It takes 15+ days to fully level a character to 70. 15 x 24 hours = 360 hours. 360 hours x 6 characters = 2160 hours. Extra time spent on each character at level 70: unknown, but substantial. That's probably about 3000+ hours. If it took him 2 years to achieve these characters, that means he played an average of 4 hours a day, each and every day for 730 days. If he reached this level more quickly, obviously he spent more time per day playing... for instance, if he achieved this in one year, it means he played over 8 hours a day. Don't, don't, don't let him buffalo you when you go speak to your religious leader. If you guys want to try some kind of a schedule or controlled playing, be my guest. But first he needs to come completely clean about how much he's been playing and how long it's taking. It is in the nature of addicts to minimize and deny and lie to themselves and others about the depth of their addiction. Don't accept ridiculous statements on faith or trust him... he's not himself right now, he really isn't. Jane in CT
Jane - Im not a WoW gamer, but a veteran of many other MMOs and I think your numbers may need some revision. It is possible, (according to several gaming websites) to level a character from1-70 in as little as 4-8 days played. Apparently the game has been revised somewhat to make the time commitment involved less and has been this way since at least mid 2007. So to follow your formula 4 x 24 = 96 hours x 6 characters is 576 hours. Now divide that by 2 years 576 hours / 730 days = .78 hours per day. Now the guy above is likely somewhere in the middle - lets say 8 then 8 x 24 = 192 x 6 characters is 1152 hours divded by 2 years = 1.5 hours a day , which is less time than the average American spends in front of a passive TV screen each day. even in youir example (excluding the extra 800+ hours you tacked on thats not accounted for) - is still under 3 hours. Still less than most people spend each evening. Still too much, of course, im not defending it. I bring it up only because the amount of time played is sure to be a bone of contention in getting this situation resolved. If the OP goes into councilling saying "3000 hours"!!! that may exacerbate an already tense situation. Figured Id do those out longhand in the interest of accuracy. **** For me, and I do recognize that defining addictions is a slippery slope , its less about time played and more about an incessant compulsion to play and an inability to quit or go long periods without playing. And of course, its impact on your work/life/family. The gentleman in question plays less than most people watch TV daily. Yet he clearly has an addiction since its impacting his life and he cannot give it up.
"There are no great men. There are only ordinary men, capable of meeting great challenges."
-Adm Wm F Halsey
What does it matter how many hours he is playing? The point is, if it is effecting his relationships and marriage - then it is too much. 1 hour or 1,000,000, doesn't matter.
Until we are tested, how do we know if we will pass?
No matter how many days it takes to level a 70, having 6 of then is ALOT of toons. Knowing WoW as well as I do, I know how much of a commitment it takes to level one, even after the leveling change, and it still takes a ton of time.... I have to say that 4 days is a bit low, I would say that 8 is probably around the lowest time. Regardless, as Inspire said, if this is affecting your marriage then it's clearly too much. I just know that six level 70 toons is more than most people I know had :(
Thank you so much everyone for your replies. You all have given me so much to think about. Currently I am attending a 12 step group at my church. Part of it is to help me with co-dependency. Part of it is that I will admit that I am 2 years into my own recovery from what can only be termed as internet addiction... it sounds trifle but at my worst, I would be on the computer on average between 8-20 hours a day... considering I am a stay at home Mom... well you get the picture. I actually am very aware of how addiction skews reality and how easily I could defend my own neglect of my husband and children. I also openly admit that it was during my own habit, that my husband found WoW. So yes, I think in the beginning it was an escape from the difficulty of our lives due to my own habit. I should make it more clear that because I am a recovering addict myself (now I get on the computer as little as possible, avoid the sites that I used to spend hours and hours on and no longer associate with those people as well)... that my approach with my husband and his own addiction has only been discussion -- I've been there, done that... so I can't pass harsh judgment on him. I did set boundaries in order to protect my children. However, as I have come to see -- after recognizing my co-dependency in this -- that by trying to keep him from total self-destruction with this game, that he has a false sense of his own control over this game. Before my own addiction (developed during undiagnosed post-partum depression)... my husband and I have always been best friends. I am not putting rose colored glasses on looking at our lives together. It wasn't perfect, but since we are both fairly even-tempered people (him a little more than me), both would rather discuss than fight... and usually adhered to the rule of never going to bed angry with one another, we generally got through pretty much anything. I know I started this... If I could go back in time... of course I would do differently. But I got out. And I was patient with him. He's a really good man and I figured eventually he'd wake up one morning and realize that he's wasting his life with his game. He's very intelligent, analytical and very caring and decent. 3 years later... And I guess I just got tired of pretending like everything was alright. We've discussed, at various times, his excessive gaming -- so this is nothing new. He made a gaming schedule more than once (him -- not me) and has broken that each time. Sometimes in as little as the same week. I think I'm more surprised at how very deep in denial he is. A year ago, he would openly admit that he was addicted but not ready to give it up yet. I was not happy with the response, but I could respect it. In the vice of my own habit, I had known that it was consuming my life and ruining my family... but I wasn't ready to give it up. (Man, I hated myself for that -- I really wanted to die instead.) Now, however, he absolutely believes that he does not have a problem. I'm sad. But I've been thinking (and praying) a lot since our discussion yesterday. I'm certainly okay with him gaming less, and maybe that's the path he needs to take for now... maybe cold turkey isn't the way for him. And I am by no means punishing him by not giving up the game completely. However, as long as he clings to the idea that the game has not affected our relationship or him, then I don't see how it's possible for us to have real depth as we work on strengthening our marriage. Perhaps it is not as much the game that hinders us, but the fact that he is not ready to be honest about how important it has become to him. Does that make sense? At any rate, I am letting go.... not of my faith that we can one day overcome this, not of my love for him... but of trying to rescue him and losing myself in the process. I know now that this game is not just the center of his life, but mine as well. I realize that I need to get myself healthy. I need to live my life. I need to move on and let God take care of the rest. It's been hard -- more so in letting go of the idea that he *will* give up the game. I have to let him decide that on his own. Just as I had to decide on my own that my addiction was destroying my life. Thanks again. It has been such a blessing for me to have a place to talk about this. ~Randi
~Randi
Well, I hear you. Certainly one of the first steps we "anons" get to is the realization that we can't control "our" addicts. We are powerless over their addiction. You are also very right when you say, or at least imply, that even if your husband's gaming is the center of HIS life, his gaming and his addiction don't have to be the center of yours. Or your children's. You would be smart, and certainly are perfectly entitled to, go out and start living life regardless of whether he chooses to participate. Hey, none of us even knows how long our life span will be, and if you sit around waiting for him to come to his senses, the rest of your life might just pass you by. I know it is depressing and sad to spend time doing things without your husband that you should be doing with him, but it's a heckuva lot better than not doing them at all. I think a big part of my perspective comes from the fact that I am the mom of an addicted gamer, not the wife of one. (BTW, he is the source for the above stats, I have no idea as to their current applicability since he's been off WoW for 15 months now, give or take). As a parent of a minor child, you can and should take a harder line - no gaming, period, once a "controlled" schedule has been tried and fails once. It is an awful lot easier on the compulsive gamer not to play at all than it is to constantly deal with that temptation, that lure to overplay... kinda like an alcoholic trying to just drink one beer, or a smoker just having one cigarette. For most true addicts, that doesn't work... but I do understand there are very different dynamics with a husband and a wife, where the wife cannot simply demand total abstinence. At any rate, best of luck to you. I really, really hope that more happiness is around the corner for you. Jane in CT
I came across this today and I was shocked at our similar our situations are. I have two children, not five, but my husband and I have been married for 10 years. Unfortunately, unlike your husband, mine is not as passive and neither am I to be honest. Unfortunately, our discussion start off civil but sometimes end rather heated. I have always waited to have these discussions when my children are not at home, usually at grandma's because you never know how it is going to go. You said that you never worried about his gaming before because he would get the game, beat it and move on. My husband was the same. But in the last two and a half years, since he discovered Star Wars Galaxy, he hasn't been able to stop and the time he spends playing has increased with time. I feel like he is spiraling out of control with it. I have begun doing things without him and leaving him at home because frankly, when is away from the game for more than 30 minutes, he starts to get cranky. He says it's because my daughter is going through her terrible twos, but often times when we are at a family function, we take separate cars so that he can leave when he wants to instead of making everyone rush. We don't have a church that we attend so we don't have the ability to talk to anyone there and the only friends he has, he talks to over the interenet. Let me ask you, does your husband game with females and males? If so, has it bothered you that he talks to them more than he does you? I have sat there and listened to him talk to his friends online and have felt horrible for being jealous of these people that he talks to for hours on end and treats so much better than his own family. Was just curious if you found this to be the case as well.
Hi Kay, I don't know if "misplaced" is still reading and posting here... but I will note that there are many, many instances on this board of gamers becoming much more emotionally involved with their guild-mates than they are with the folks in their real lives. Several spouses/partners have noted the sense of frustration, depression and anger they feel when the gamer talks happily and excitedly to the gaming pals, while snarling at or ignoring the real folks around the house. And, unfortunately, many a marriage has been affected when a gamer makes a deep emotional connection (or what they believe to be so) with a fellow gamer... to the detriment of the primary marital relationship. I have read several accounts of gamers leaving the spouse or partner, in order to pursue an online fantasy... or, when the spouse finally decides enough is enough and leaves, the gamer does not object, because there was another partner "waiting in the wings" so to speak. In no way should you feel "horrible" for being jealous of the people your husband is putting before you and your children. Why on earth would YOU be at fault? Why is it wrong of you to want some companionship, and for your children to actually have a father? Our advice to spouses here, as you may already have noted from looking around the site, distills to a couple of key points: stop enabling, get a real-life support system in place, and start living your own life. Once you stop orienting your family's life around your husband's compulsive gaming, and start engaging in activities and a life without him, you may have some clarity about what you'll want to do next. You are entitled to be happy, and certainly your children are entitled to a life that involves more than watching the back of daddy's head. Jane in CT