Admin Note:
It's been almost four and a half years since I wrote this post - I have to say while many perspectives about gaming have changed for me, my perspective of online "friends" hasn't. Please read and take note, if you haven't noticed already.
Ron/Diggo
I have a compelling need to share a quick story with you folks, particularly those who emphatically insist that one's online friends are as real and as good as real life friends.
In my almost three years of play, I met and befriended many people in the realm of Norrath. Many of these folks I played with regularly for long periods of time. Others I would be good friends with and then would only see them once in a while. I played my halfling druid with the best roleplaying skills I could muster. I spent countless hours creating quests for young players, helping people with all kinds of tasks and I spent many, many hours counseling people both in and out of game who had real life issues to deal with.
When I decided to leave Norrath for good, I left with the intention of keeping in touch with at least a half-dozen of my "closest" friends in Norrath via email and such. I figured the rapport built up between us could keep our friendships going even though we didn't share the realm of Norrath anymore. I was wrong.
Now, three and a half months after leaving EQ, these people have all vanished. I had tried to keep correspondence going via email which they replied to with a short message, without much detail as to how they were doing. After a couple weeks, I never heard from them again. I know they still play Everquest because I see their many daily postings on various Everquest message boards. They spend alot of time /hugging, discussing quests and loot and raids and such, but it seems they have no time for anything that doesn't involve Everquest. I know from first hand experience that that is because many of them don't have anything else in their lives BUT Everquest. Now it seems, my "good" friends don't have any time for me.
I'm not saying this to garner any pity. But I do want you to realize that those people who you consider to be such good friends will all but scatter once you leave the realm of Norrath. There is something about that place that keeps people together who play regularly. But it's not until you leave the fold that you REALLY understand how shallow and empty the great majority of online friendships are.
I speak from experience.
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Moderator
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to May, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Thanks for sharing your "real" life experience.
Point well made.
Liz Woolley
Very good point, Ron. I've had similar experiences with UO and DAoC, and know that friends in an on-line game are never friends for long when you leave that on-line game. Very sad, but these on-line friends are also most likely addicted to the on-line game and therefore isolate most, if not all of their friends in r/l.
______________________________
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--=[ dervishdukot@hotmail.com ]=--
I have only been out of the game for a few days now, but I have yet to hear from several "close" friends that I spent hundreds of hours with. I have sent one person an email , that was Thurs or Fri...used to be a immediate response when game related. Part of the huge addiction to games of this nature is the appearance/feeling of having a bustling social life. I feel really sorry for those who have completely isolated themselves from their real life friends and families.....I am an adult , I have the emotional resources that I need to rebuild my real life..but I can't imagine how difficult it would be at age 15 or 17 to go from being sought after/needed/wanted because of the spells you can cast or the damage that you can take...to the real world where you are just you. If they would only realize that real life friends and family love unconditionally..just because you are you. Real life friends and family don't just go away, even if you force them away...even then...they keep at it. Thank god for that.
/hugs
Kafster
Sort of reminds me of recovering alcoholics - why hang around the bar? It really isn't the same any more.
You are now on a different level than the active alcoholic.
It is uncomfortable for both, because they now have different agendas. One is growing, the other isn't.
Liz Woolley
Indeed.
Well said Liz!
I have been hanging out with some addicts (not that I'm not), and I'm finding out that one person in particular, who I thought was a really good friend has now distanced himself from me. Who knows why. This behavior has very much upset me.
However, I do have another EQ friend that I communicate with outside of game on ICQ. We have more interests in common that transcend the game.
I just wanted to state that I understand what you said, because I'm feeling rather disillusioned by my other EQ friend.
Best wishes.
Lyndane
Unfortunately, this is one of the problems of online friendships, that there isn't the commitment of "friendship" that two people who see each other in real life have. It's real easy to blow someone off in game or mess with people's heads. I've seen it more than I cared to, but those same people would not do that to people in real life.
In one of the guilds I was friends with, there was a very close relationship between a guy and a girl. They were inseparable for well over a year, chatted in game, hunted together often, and were for all practical purposes, "married" in game. Recently, the guy found out that the girl he was "dating" was actually another guy in real life who was screwing with him all along. This happens all the time.
I hope your situation works out ok.
By the way, welcome, Lyndane, and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Moderator
Online Gamers Anonymous
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to May, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Quote: but I can't imagine how difficult it would be at age 15 or 17 to go from being sought after/needed/wanted because of the spells you can cast or the damage that you can take...to the real world where you are just you.
Yep, that's my EQ bf -- extemely well sought out. He's one of the best pullers, exceptional raid leader, extremely knowledgeable about the game, extremely knowledgeable about his class, very popular, held in high regard and very helpful.
He's all of that, but he's awfully insensitive and uncaring when it comes to close relationships. His EQ friends have complained to me about the same (moody, insensitive, rude, etc). Yep, he has his EQ public character, then there's the real person.
Sorry, for focusing on him, but it helps me get a grip on who I'm dealing with and to "sober up" about the relation.
Lyndane
I also expected to keep in touch with online friends but fail to hear from any of them.
However, the people I knew offline before I started playing, and started ot know better while playing are still in contact with me. I think it's easier when you can actually go to someone's house, though.
That was Zen; this is Tao.
Each day that passes, I get a rude awakening about the online guy I've been talking about here. He's basically turned into a class jerk. I'm beginning to think that (a) he was putting on an act in the beginning when he was really nice to me, (b) somehow he hates me now and has turned into a jerk (c) he has some serious emotional/mental problems.
Lyndane
Quote: I can't tell you how many people I've seen who intentionally screwed with other people's emotions for fun. It's sickening.
Sometimes I wonder since he knows I have strong feelings for him and our feelings aren't mutual, is he screwing with my emotions? Is he getting some sick sense of satisfaction and power, knowing that I have feelings for him?
The only thought that gives me consolation about my fear is that we all reap what we sow.
Lyndane
Quote: You've got to find a way to make yourself realize that you do not deserve to be treated that way. It is not normal to be treated that way, and yes, he may eventually get what's coming to him, but how about taking care of yourself in the mean time? Please consider the following:
Liz believes that there is a strong chance that the reason Shawn shot and killed himself laster November was because of an online relationship in EQ that went bad. Get out now, at least out of the guild and away from this person before your self esteem decays to the point where you might someday try to do something drastic. It is too late for Shawn, but YOU have a chance.
I have not been back to Everquest since Wednesday night, October 9th. Each day that I haven't been on, I get a little better perspective on what happened between me and guy. Sometimes, I get angry when I think about how he changed and became inconsiderate and insensitve towards me. It helps me to talk to my EQ friends (through other mediums such as ICQ, email or phone), because they reinforce the truth that he is indeed a jerk and that it wasn't just my imagination.
I haven't the energy to log on to deal with deguilding, because I don't want to end up having a weak moment and talk to him, which would be pouring salt on the wounds again. Although I get urges to log on just to talk to friends, I think I won't. I have a party to attend tonight, so I'm looking forward to that.
Thanks for being here.
Lyndane
Edited by: Lyndane at: 10/13/02 6:29:31 pm
Lyndane,
You can post in our Milestone section!
Even one day off of Everquest gets you in there!
Liz
Liz Woolley
As for online friends, here goes. All of my RL friends that I have had since I was a child have moved out of state, so we keep in contact through email or messangers. Okay, with that all stated. Back a while ago I left EQ because my husband and I were in the process of moving, buying a second computer, getting new jobs, etc etc, I didn't have much time in my life and by the time I got the kids to bed I wanted to crash. Till things settled down to the point where the house was in order and we were unpacked...which took about 3-4 months...I had contact from every single person who said they would keep in touch. I still talk to a few of them since I have switched servers. I know people where I play now that I have played with for almost a year now, a few are closer than others. I will most likely keep in contact with them because they live close and I have even been to dinner with some that my husband and I know from the game, very nice people.
Now on the other hand I have also ran into those who toy with people for fun...which means I usually sit talking to hurt people for hours, because I listen and others seem to trust me. I can easily say the good outweigh the bad on there. That is just my 2 cents about online friends.
It will happen with people you meet first in RL also, let me tell you I have been in church when I was 5. I was in church till I was about 16 I had an idea conflict with the youth pastor, at that time I decided that this church was not for me, I stopped going. Let me give you some background, I have always been fairly popular and respected I was on a youth counsil position for people to come to me if they had problems, questions, etc. I had many people that were my friends, lets say around 20 people that I was really close to, went to school with, went to church camps all that good stuff, we grew up togather and knew everything about each other. Lets fast forward to today, how many of these people who professed their friendship to me do I still speak with? One, she is my dearest and closest friend we have held each other up through some of the toughest times in our lives and will continue to do so. It is just a fact of life you will find true friends and you will find false friends no matter where you meet them first.
Unfortunately, many of life's friendships are highly situational. Its part of how our nature works to form friendships among people who we interact with on a daily basis. When something happens to changes those daily interactions, often those friendships fade. A recent example in my own life involves work related friendships. I changed jobs 6 months ago. The staff at my old job was very close. We enjoyed each other's company, we shared our problems and our joys, and were very supportive of each other. I truly regarded many of the people there as friends. Since leaving that job though, I have hardly talked to any of them. I don't for a minute though think that my relationships with those people were any less real or important because they have now faded. I just regard it as a natural consequence of no longer interacting with these people on a daily basis. Think back on your life. We've all had intense friendships that have faded as a result of changes in environment. Old high school and college friends, old room mates, friends from camp, former church friends, the list can go on and on. Just because these relationships have faded once the environment they were forged in changed, does that make them any less real or important? I think not.
I do not regard the fading of EQ friendships once someone has left the game as any more significant than the fading of these other relationships in our lives. It only a natural consequence of no longer sharing a common activity.
Heya Diggo,
Just wanted to let you know that I'm hail and hearty, and that I've poked my head in here from time to time.
I quit EQ in August, basically because I wasn't having any fun anymore.
Anyway back on topic, I agree in that I think many friendships are context specific particularly those made online. I remember even before EQ back when I first got a pc, how I learned the hard way how online relationships differ, and that friendships, intimacy, honesty and other concepts had a different meaning online than in real life. EQ friendships just like most online friendships are ephemeral at best. Moreover I never understood why people always found it difficult to believe that the pretty little wood elf could actually be played by a fat hairy man named Bob.
Diggo and I were pretty good friends in EQ, and I watched him deal with some tough guild issues as well as wrestle with finding balance between RL and game. Ron not only made a healthy decision, but he also put his neck out in contacting Ms. Wooley and organizing and setting up this site. I've read many heated debates on our former guild site as well as our sister guild about addiction and gaming, so I do think to some (definitely not all) it was not the most popular thing he has done.
I also know as a professional counselor that some people freak out when a friend or a loved one says, "I have a problem (insert problem here)", and determine that the best way of dealing with that person is to ignore them, or worse shun them.
So possibly for a variety of reasons, people have drifted away. As for me I haven't really kept in contact with anyone since I've left EQ, basically because I suck at online correspondence. Even with my girl friend who lives over a hundred miles away I find it easier to call her than e-mail.
Anyway Ron I applaud your recovery, I support what your doing, and feel free to e-mail me or call me, I'll make a better effort to stay in touch.
By the way my invitation for dinner still stands if you and your wife are ever in Atlanta.
I started in September 2001 and left EQ 7 months later. All I did for those 7 months was to play EverQuest, or upgrade my computer to be able to play. My rude awakening came when SOE hiked the rates by a huge percentage. My first thoughts were that I easily could afford it, but realized that people were not complaining much and decided to take a 6 month hiatus. It was like quitting cigarettes. I said goodbye to all my friends, guild and character. I still want to play again, and I might, but SOE are treating us like drug addicts: "The first month is free, then you will do whatever I say until death do us part."
Welcome, ODien and and Culann,
Thank you for sharing your stories.
Please feel free to post in our Milestone section, and in our Story section.
Also, feel free to share throughout the board! We are looking for ex-gamers to support each other.
We welcome you to this membership, of which you have already paid your dues.
I am happy you are here.
We will treat you better.
Look at www.olganon.org for tools, and ideas to help support you.
We are here for you.
Welcome!
Liz
Liz Woolley
I had some great points to make but Laenini beat me to them. Friendships are so often linked to common activities interests. The online friendships you've made are no different.
I would like to share a story that might give another perspective to this topic. I got a call the other day from a fellow many of you knew as Humgurorm. He and I have known each other for about 12 years. We've worked together at a couple of different places but we have never really been buddies and hung out together. Wives and children get priority when it comes to time, as it should be. When he called he invited me to a few drinks.
While we're throwing back a few beers and doing some catching up he told me about a conversation he recently had with his wife. During this conversation he told her that he was bummed out because he only had six true friends in the world and four of them lived out of state. He thought he should have more at this age. His wife asked him how he defines a 'true friend'. His reply was, "If I was stranded in another state, some 600+ miles away, a true friend would drive as far as it took to come get me in my time of need."
I was pleased that he counted me among those six but it got me thinking. He considers me a true friend but we hardly ever talk. Sure, we've always gotten along great and we make each other laugh when we're together but I hadn't really thought of him as a good friend before that conversation.
My point is that good friends don't have to maintain contact very often, at least I don't think they do. A true friend is the type of person who is really happy to see you even if it's only once every couple of years. You might try using a different measuring stick when counting the friends you have.
And that close friend you are referring to? I'm willing to bet that even if you aren't meeting for lunch as often as you used to, she would crawl out of bed in the middle of the night to come get you if you were stranded some 600+ miles away.
One more thing. On the chance someone tries to claim that coming to get a person in their time of need doesn't really say much about a friendship, you should do some thinking about exactly what that entails. Heck, I've got relatives that wouldn't do that for me. I've also got several friends that wouldn't either. I'm willing to bet each of you do too.
Quote: My point is that good friends don't have to maintain contact very often, at least I don't think they do. A true friend is the type of person who is really happy to see you even if it's only once every couple of years. You might try using a different measuring stick when counting the friends you have.Friends need to have a very strong, existing relationship first before it becomes less important to see each other on a regular basis. It is still important to make contact, even if making contact is merely e-mails, IM, or phone. To simply have a good friend with limitied contact without developing a relationship first is nearly impossible.
______________________________
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--=[ dervishdukot@hotmail.com ]=--
I'm still your friend diggo!!!
www.ravlowscorpse.com
Property of KoT
Sonnys !
This post is mostly directed towards the people I played EQ with, so for everyone else, please excuse in the "inside" talk.
This thread was started a couple months ago. It had been about 4 months since I quit EQ and I hadn't heard from many folks so I decided to do some posting and send some emails to some people I had played with regularly. After about a week, I only got a couple short responses, one of them with the tone that I was interrupting her, and so I felt neglected.
(Now I can see Mando rolling his eyes again as he reads this thinking "Stop being a victim, Diggo.)
The topic of diminishing friendships after leaving EQ, came up on some other boards and so, out of frustration I started this thread, something many of us learned a long time not to do, but which we still do anyway.
The thread quickly went to the bottom of the pile until it got a bump recently. I re-read it and thought it sounded really negative, which it was, but by that time it had gotten some really good responses which I figured would benefit people reading it, better than it would benefit me, by taking it down, so I left it.
My old guildies' replies made me realize that yes, it's natural for friendships to fade a bit when the thing that the people shared in common was no longer shared, EQ that is.
So in short, I no longer feel the way I did when I started this thread back in August, but I didn't want to delete it because it might help someone else make the same realization I did.
Diggo
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Moderator
Online Gamers Anonymous
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to May, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I posted this on my server board yesterday, I meant to post it here but I had to say my goodbye after 6 years and try to let go and come to peace with a pain I have carried for far too long, no ammount of tears will bring back what I lost, but I can always remember what I had and what I loved while it was here and that will keep him with me till I see him again on the other side.
Today marks kind of a day of reflection for me. Six years ago today after working the late shift on patrol my father walked into my room woke me up and told me my bestfriend had hit a chain link fence doing about 100 mph on his motorcycle....Shane was dead. I really felt my world crumble around me at this point. Shane was more than just a friend he was always there to look out for me, as most young people do I ran though life without a care or thought of danger, he stayed with me and made sure I didn't do anything too stupid and kept the people who intended harm away from me. As I stood at his grave I was saddened to realize he never knew that what he did for me really changed my life and that he meant more to me than I had ever let him know.
With all of that said, maybe today would be a good day for you all to call a friend that you haven't spoken with in a while, just because. Let them know that you care and enjoy them. Too often in life we take those closest to us for granted, they will not always be there. Please make the time to let people know you care today, the worst feeling in the world is standing at the grave of someone you love and knowing they never knew how much you cared. Please tell someone you love them today.
P.S. and I did tell many "online" friends I was glad they were there for hugs and support.
Edited by: Aiaka at: 10/17/02 10:03:31 am
Diggo never sends me emails anymore. Even after that dance we shared....
IadasProfile Mavrrik'sProfile
That's because you smell funny Iadas.
Aiaka,
I'm very sorry for your loss, six years ago. Thank you for your trust in us to share your story here.
The pains felt from the loss of a loved friend bears a striking contrast to the relatively insignificant problems of our everyday stresses. While no one wants to experience such a loss, it does serve to help us reprioritize just what is, and what isn't important in our lives.
Your post caused me to take a minute of pause and to consider my friendships and relationships, and how lucky I am to have the people I do, in my life.
Please accept my condolences and my wishes for a peaceful day and upcoming weekend.
Diggo
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Moderator
Online Gamers Anonymous
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to May, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Yup, online relationships are likely to be fleeting. The same's true IRL. The more you meet, the more you lose touch with. I have many friends and waaay more than I deserve. They're only a fraction of the number of friends I've had over years... online or RL. BTW, my greatest friend is six weeks married to the lady he met online, a friend of ours in living in New Zealand with his bride whom he met online, and three guys who work in the department store where I work are married to women they met online. I guess that not all on-line relationships are so fleeting!
I'll still be your friend, Ron. Did you get my email? I wrote you right back and it was more than a short response...you owe me drinks! Haha
Hugs,
Jo
Dikiny Dellight
Dwarven High Priestess
Knights of the Tribunal
Yeah, that was some reply, Dikiny. I see Irwin's got you trained well!
I'm really glad to see that things are going well at home. I was concerned for a while which is why I contacted you in the first place.
Heck yeah, you got a bottomless bar tab the next time I see you! (Apologies to the A.A. 12-steppers)
Diggo
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Moderator
Online Gamers Anonymous
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to May, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Just had another gathering of 7 EQ friends, two of which had come back to visit for a third time since April and whom I consider to be two of the most wonderful and fun people I have had the pleasure of meeting. Real friendships can be made in the most unusual of places and to consider shutting out possible friendships because of a source might mean you might be missing out on some wonderful encounters
Friendships take work no matter where they come from and while you should always be careful of any friendships you make both online and offline, never discount the possibility that you just might make a friend somewhere you never expected.
It's kind of funny this thread is up where I could see it tonight...
I was just sitting in a zone killing passing things while BSing with a good RL friend. I was making fun of the gnomes that were about ready to go level in the frozen tower when I got a tell from a regular groupmate's wife.
Basically as we were chatting tonight we found out that we both ended up in Florida by some evil fate. We both just had birthdays last week though she is two years younger than me. We both play everquest for the same reason that we have no friends or family in our area. We found out we live an hour away from each other.
This weekend the three of us are probably going to get togeather to go see the new LoTR movie (finally!!). I have them both convinced to come to my Live action war game next month. (yea!! more player so I can trip and break my neck in the forest again!! You should see my bruise from the evil treestump that bit me!) Basically, I have found someone that has the same intrests as I do that lives fairly close!
Overall I have been very blessed with the online friends I have. When work keeps me off EQ or even my email for excessive amounts of time I get phone calls from guildmates (there's one guildy who is a RL friend that passed out my phone number, which I will bonk him for when I go home next year), my email was full of "are you ok?" and such.
I am also a 7 year fixture of a ooc chat room for another game I play IRL, and used to on the official website. Over the last 7 years I have met half of the residents of this chat room...we all have a standing invitation to stay at each other's house when we're in each other's area. One of them actually lives an hour from me, another moved down here to go to school to be near me, a third is stationed here. One had gotten a job with me before circumstances made him quit. Two more are moving down here in Jan to be nearer to me. Isn't that cool or what?
As I said, I've lucked out with the "real" online friends...On the flipside, of the friends I had growing up and in school...one ended up marrying his eq sweetie (at the time I didn't play EQ because I was too busy with running a weekly vampire the masquerade event), one turned gay and forgot the rest of us, one thought he was a vampire and moved to georgia with his sister (now that is a case that you guys might want to hear about. I'll tell it if anyone asks me too...intresting on a psychological level as well), my 7 year ex boyfriend/high school sweetie is married to an ex coworker I worked with in college, two are married to each other and have the most screwed up relationship and won't talk to the rest of us, two went in the army and of the two one married a 40 year old woman and the other has a 50 year old boyfriend (and that friend is a he), one is a witch and her coven won't let her talk to anyone else....you're getting the point.
My best friend rarely writes me or calls me, however, every so often I get the bestest friend in the whole wide world trophies in the mail with a big "I miss you" attached. (awwww) When we talked last month she's trying to get a grant to come to school here in FL to be close to me too. *sniffles*
Well, anyways....thanks for letting me post and sorry for sorta rambling.
G'night and don't let the mosquitos bite!
Kshali MourningMoon
Druid of the 38th Season, 12 times and counting
~Member of Justifiers~
A Warden of Tunare
Innoruuk Server
Laenini , sounds like real life almost. I have had many good friends disappear over the years In real life that is. So how is this really any different ?. I met my RL wife on EQ and we are happily Married now for the last year and a half. Cannto really get more real than that. I also have friends that I have met on EQ from all over the world and we do keep in Contact even though some of them have stopped playing EQ for more than a year now. So I am not really seeing your point. Friends come and go Fact of life some stay but most do not. This is also from RL experience, just depends on how much experience you have I guess or how lucky you are with the people you meet in your life time.
Grummpy Oldman High Priest
Edited by: Mosaid at: 12/17/02 12:15:18 am
In junior high, I fell madly in "love" with my best friend. (Yeah, as if that's love, right? LOL) The years passed, we spent most waking moments together. We graduated and, as a result of my prodding, he was accepted into a prestigious music conservatory. I was so proud.... and, still, so in love. He considered me as a sister, there was nobody in whom he confided more, even in the awkward high school years. I knew that, of all the people I had met in my life, this was the one who would be with me forever.
One year after graduation, he stopped emailing. Now, five years later, its been years since I heard from him. He skipped my wedding. He was my entire world for eight years, I devoted COUNTLESS hours to the activities we had in common, as did he. But when he was gone, he never looked back.
Of all the friends I had in high school, I speak with ONE regularly. ONE friend out of the dozens I exchanged email addresses and phone numbers with.
Know why? Real life took over. While I was a very real, very important part of their lives during school, when I left, there was a void there. Other things filled it. Other people, jobs, classes, you name it. They needed to concentrate on their present and not their past. This is, simply, a fact of life. People move on. How many people have stayed in touch with their first BEST friend, even ten years after one member moved away or moved on? Remarkably few, I would wager.
It's just the way things work. A game is hardly the place to put your anger. Put your anger in "life."
Hawk the ninja bumper.
But I agree with what she says. I was supposed to be the 8th person, and had I been down there, Diggo would have been the 9th. (I would have dragged you out diggo, and there would have been NOTHING you could have done to stop me. )
I don't know how I ended up where I am today, but I wouldn't have changed anything I have done in the game. I love all the people that I have met, and those friendships that reach outside of that box.
Mavrrik Magus
Knights of the Tribunal
eh, online vs RL friends, eh?
well, i've mentioned my friend who is expecting his first child. he hardly ever plays anymore. we email
i've mentioned my friend who took time off eq because his brother moved in with him after his divorce. about 4 days after we haddent seen him online, i called, just to make sure he was okay. we email and chat, even though he can't get online, because he is my FRIEND.
i took some time off EQ to deal with finals, i've gotten countless emails going "how are finals? hope you're doing okay. let me know how things are going :-)"
I only read the first couple of posts. Excuse me if I missed something...
Personally, I enjoy playing Everquest, and I enjoy being able to chat with people online while playing a game with them. But, I never really get attached to any of the people I meet there. I don't spend my day wondering what the people I met in my guild are up to or anything like that, and I won't really miss them when I leave, or they do (I know this because I sorta drifted away from the game for a year or so, before luclin came out and I decided to try it again. I lost contact with all the old guild guys, and I really wasn't concerned with it at all). This isn't to say I don't like them! But you have to remember that all your doing is playing a game with some other people who are also playing a game. If your logging on to Everquest to form relationships, then I think you do have a problem.
This, of course, isnt everquests fault, but the nature of the game certainly attracts people who could have problems in that manner.
-Kebsis
Quote:But you have to remember that all your doing is playing a game with some other people who are also playing a game. If your logging on to Everquest to form relationships, then I think you do have a problem. Point well made, piddlypie. I think this is where the huge diffeneces occur with the game. Some people are there, cause it is "just a game" and others are there, cause it is their life. A huge difference, and that is why people can be so hurt, by what happens. Not everyone is on the same page.
Liz Woolley
Quote:Some people are there, cause it is "just a game" and others are there, cause it is their life. A huge difference, and that is why people can be so hurt, by what happens. Not everyone is on the same page
I totally agree. This is why each of us need to be responsible for how we choose to play just as people need to be resposible for every path they choose in life. Its not the material thing thats bad...its how we choose to use it that makes the difference and that is up to each individual and their family to work through. This forum provides great support as long as folks here realize that the game itself can have both positive and negative results depending on each person that plays and how they play just as most everything in life can potentially have positive and negative results.
Edited by: Hawkfeather Rowe at: 12/18/02 9:17:38 am
Yes, good point, Hawk. I think that's probably where the problem lies is when someone is not able to make that determination. I guess to most, they understand where the boundaries of the game meet their real life, not just in terms of friends, because you can have friends in-game overlap into real life as they have with both you and I.
But there are those who try to apply the social dynamics of EQ to their real life, blurring the line. And when they see that they cannot achieve the same success in real life as they can in Norrath, they become even more withdrawn until real life becomes so uncomfortable that they stay in Norrath for the majority of their waking days.
I have read of a number of individuals who play 100+ hours per week and while they deny any problem, it's clear that 12 hours/day in Norrath is not a healthy thing.
This is why I fear the 'Sims Online' is going to be even more of a problem for people than any other game so far. To clarify, not that the game will be a problem, but that the inherent nature of Sims Online will allow people to replace every aspect of their real life socialization with the socializations afforded by the Sims online.
Sure, EQ can provide some of that stimulation, but with the Sims Online, you can duplicate just about any social activity from weddings, to parties, to get togethers, children, careers, love interests, you name it.
That really scares me just because over the past 6 months that I've been exposed to some of the more serious problems that people have with online gaming, I can see how having an environment so close to real life will blur that line between reality and fantasy even more.
I'd be willing to bet that the producers of Sims Online have no idea what problems some people will have from playing that game compulsively. It's really scary.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Ron, you know as well as I do that I have had more then my share of people sharing problems with me both game and RL. Both of us are blessed with a good ear And yes, EQ can affect the lives of people, I don't see it as the sole problem in most cases. Many have other issues as well that aren't game related, some they share and some they don't. For many of those EQ is an escape and merely a symptom of a larger problem that needs fixing.
EQ has negative aspects like anything can in the hands of certain people. I have seen EQ have positive influences as well as negative. If you try to keep things in perspective, as with anything in your life, it can have positive influences. I feel for those that have had negative results of this game and I hope them the best in recovery, but in the process I hope things don't take a turn of trying to rid ourselves of online games, internet chat rooms, emails, simply because they have potential of creating a negative situation for some. Warning labels are justified and places like this site are wonderful for folks to get information as long as it doesn't become a place to promote the downfall of one of the most interesting forms of world-wide communtication I have seen. The Sim things I have never been interested in and you know as well they are a bit creepy to me, and while I don't particularly like the idea of those games, I don't feel its my position to step in and say who should or shouldn't play with the exception of my own family.
Edited by: Hawkfeather Rowe at: 12/18/02 3:47:54 pm
I agree that going to the opposite extreme and trying to get rid of online games is a massive mistake and one which I would fight tooth and nail against. I have spoken with people who feel that pretty much any secular game is founded in sin. This scares me too. I can't imagine what it must be like to live your life in such fear that you feel you must abolish anything that poses a threat and openly espouse that anyone who believes differently is on a freight train to Hell. I just hope Satan has Broadband...of course I know he will have a firewall....firewall...get it? Fire...hell...satan...firewall?!?
Ok, never mind.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I disagree with the reason for this thread. It sounds to me like you're just trying to find another reason to slam this evil horrible game that is eq. I've played over two years. I keep in constant contact with more than one of my online friends, not just through emails, but IM and letters too. So not everyone's eq friends are going to leave them high and dry or whatever.
Maneya Soulfly
I've never slammed EQ. In fact, I can't count the number of times I said the game was a fantastic game. But you are still playing. Wait until you leave and then you'll see what I mean.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I still play but with all the great people I have met and fun I have had with them outside of game I won't regret my time one bit. Some people have regrets in life, some people see everything as having a reason for happening.
Some who play might regret their time later and thats fine, but to assume that just because some of us still play and can look back with fond memories doesn't mean that we haven't seen the light yet...just means we look at our time spent different for whatever reason. You just can't let EQ take over your life or prevent you from doing what you want to do... whatever you decide that is. The time I spend with my family hasn't changed, the time I spend with my friends hasn't changed except I don't spend time doing things that aren't much fun just to "kill time" or beg 5 friends to catch a movie last minute because I'm bored, only to be shot down for lack of notice . My time watching TV/videos did change as EQ became my TV substitute.
I honestly don't think we would be as close friends as we are now Ron, if we hadn't had this common interest so for that I am happy with my time playing
Edited by: Hawkfeather Rowe at: 12/22/02 7:16:48 am
Quote:I honestly don't think we would be as close friends as we are now Ron, if we hadn't had this common interest so for that I am happy with my time playing I agree completely. And I still enjoy the time we spend together discussing EQ and other things.
While I don't feel the same way I did when I first wrote this post, it is true that relationships change when one leaves the game, for whatever reason. This is neither good nor bad, but just something that people who might have not considered it, should be aware of.
I've actually met more players in RL since I left than when I played regularly. It's been fun seeing them in real life and seeing what they are really like. Some were as expected, some were complete shockers, and some I still don't have a clue about.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
"Some were as expected, some were complete shockers, and some I still don't have a clue about."
Hehe What was I? You seemed to be a lot like I expected you to be, Diggo. Very hobbit like.
Dikiny / Jo
Dikiny Dellight
Dwarven High Priestess
Knights of the Tribunal
Dikiny, you fit into a special category of your own. I don't think I ever met anyone in game who was as sweet as you were. Who else would follow after me everywhere and pick up my druid droppings? You're the only one in two and a half years that I actually gave my phone number out for to be called 24/7 while we waited for your Ragefire spawn. And you know how much I hated camps, so that should say something
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I had a great time hanging with my then-guildmates at the Fan Faire in Boston last summer. Like some have said, some were "as expected" but for almost all of these people I had almost no expectation whatsoever. It was a great group and we had a lot of laughs.
Art by Culurien GoldleafEscaped from the Skinner Box 20 October 2002