************** Admin Note 11/18/05: This controversial post touched the nerve of alot of folks when it was first written exactly three years ago. as you will read their replies below - I wanted to bump it, not to stir up a hornet's nest, but to help move some of you out of your comfort level and consider a couple things that you might not have otherwise. This post was not intended to be an accusation of any kind or an indictment of EQ or its players, despite how some have interpreted it. But I invite you to open your heart and mind and just consider what I've written below. Also and most importantly - This post is not about gaming - It's about taking time for what's important - If you see this post only as a post about gaming, then perhaps it's time to look at how gaming fits into your life. If you are indifferent to what I've written, then you probably have no issues with either your playtime or your relationships. If you are saddened or angry, then I ask you only to look inside yourself to seek the reasons for this pain. - Ron *************
What if, while you were playing EQ later today, as many of you will be doing, you hear a knock on the door, and when you stand up to peer through the curtains, or the blinds, or your door peep hole to see who it was interrupting you, you see a highway patrol officer standing there? And what if, when you open the door, you see not one, but two officers, both with somber, sad looks on their faces? And what if, even though you know something is terribly wrong already, they ask if you are a relative or partner of one of your family members or friends? And what if, at that moment, as you begin to feel a rush of adrenalin and anxiety, they tell you that they are sorry, but this person you know and love has been in a terrible accident and that person has died? And what if, at that moment, as their words are drowned out by your sudden confusion and massive feelings of sorrow and anger, and as your knees begin to weaken, you say to yourself, even for a brief instant, that you were meaning to spend more time with that person, and to someday tell that person that you were sorry for not having spent more time with her sooner? And what if, the reason that you were not spending time with that person in the first place, was because of the amount of time that you were spending online, playing Everquest, or some other game, or simply surfing the web?
What if that person was the loving wife, husband, or significant other that hated the fact that you spent so much time playing, but who, out of her love for you, tolerated it, and who still cleaned up after you, cooked for you, did your laundry, all the while hoping that someday you would return your attentions to her? But now it's too late.
What if that person was a loving parent who spent a lifetime trying to raise you as best as she or he could? Or what if it were both parents who were just killed?
What if it was your son or daughter who only went out to McDonalds for a few minutes to bring you back a meal, so you could continue your raid without stopping?
What if it was your whole family, who went out for a Sunday trip to the park, while you stayed behind so you could play and now they are all gone...in a quick second.
And while you kneel at your threshold with your head in your hands in a daze, while the officers who hate this part of the job, uncomfortably ask if there is anyone you need to call, you think of the few moments you last spent with that person or persons so long ago, and realize that you could have spent much more time...but didn't. And while you sit there, looking out at the world and the cars that are passing by...and the trees that now seem to be a surreal faded color of warped green and brown, you see a couple walk by, staring at you sitting there, wondering to themselves just what it is you were told to cause your skin to pale and your tears to flow, and immediately you know that you are now alone. The officers, having done their civic duty, now regrettably retreat to their cruiser with their heads hung low. In your hand is the business card of the county medical examiner which they left you, with a phone number which you need to call as soon as possible to 'make arrangements.'
You remain frozen for a long while, crouched up at the front door asking yourself how this could happen. The hand-written phone number on the business card begins to run and fade, as the tears stream from your face and drop heavily upon the card. "What am I going to do?" you ask yourself. Thoughts run through your mind at a million miles per hour, none of them making sense. You only know the tremendous feeling of loss and emptiness that is knotting your stomach. And the one and only clear thought that keeps running through your mind, is that you should have, and could have spent more time with that person...but you didn't. And while you unfold the business card that has now stained your palm with faded blue ink, you know you must call the number and go down to the medical examiner's office to identify your friend or relative.
Meanwhile, your guildmates, far off in the land of Norrath, joke around with each other about what it is you are doing that has kept you AFK for so long. "He must be on the toilet," they muse. "He's probably putting another pizza in the oven," they say. They know that pizza has been your traditional food of choice to eat while playing as it's quick and easy to make. They wait a few more minutes and decide to press on knowing that you will rejoin them shortly. After all, the slaying of a dragon is an important event, and it's critical that they pull the dragon before some other guild gets in there.
As the hours pass, your computer monitor, now unattended, scrolls with guildchat, first wondering where you are..and then with the battle spam of the dragon fight...and then the discussions of loot begin, the items from the dragon are rolled for, and once that is complete, the magic users gate back to their bind spots, and the druids and wizards port the rest of the guildmates to various points around Norrath and Luclin.
Before long, the chat on your monitor slows to its normal pace. It is starting to get dark outside now. It's been hours since that first ominous knock on your door, and the pots and pans in your kitchen which would have been alive with the tastes and smells of food by now, stand cold and empty. They await the skilled cook, who would eventually carry their bounty to the awaiting level 63 guild officer as he vanquishes evil in Norrath. This was the nightly routine, after all. But this loving cook, who had prepared dinner for you every night, would never return. And the pots and pans which had been washed only hours ago in preparation for tonight's meal, still gleam under the kitchen ceiling light as the last of the water used to clean them is absorbed by the cotton cloth underneath.
In a flash, your life has changed. Your online game holds no interest...you are numb, and confused, and angry, and sad. You keep saying, "If only I...." but this torment only serves to make you more upset. And because your are fatigued with the dozen or so hours of energy having been expelled to sort this whole thing out, you fall asleep at the table with eyes both red and teary. Somehow though, during the night, you managed to get yourself back to bed. You must rest, because tomorrow you must start calling your family and friends to let them know what happened, and you must make arrangements for the funeral.
Some six hours later, you are awakened by the sound of the blinds in your bedroom being raised. "Time to get up!" your partner says. "What happened to you?" she continues, referring to how restless you were last night, having pulled all the sheets off to your side of the bed. Groggy and confused, you suddenly realize that this whole thing had been a dream. Your partner, or family member, or friend was not dead, but very much alive. And while she had given up on you long ago to ask you to join your friends to do anything since you always play 'that game' instead, they decide to ask you just one more time if you want to go to the mall for shopping and then to a movie.
Now, imagine this whole story above was about you...think about it and put yourself into that person's shoes. What if this was you and what if it really were to happen? The question now is, do you go off to Norrath? Or do you go to the mall with your loved one and friends knowing now that at any second...there just might be a knock at your door? Only YOU can answer that question. Diggo
Edited by: lizwool at: 12/6/06 8:20
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Diggo, thanks for this great reminder of what is really important in life - our loved ones! As a member of a family who lost somebody very tragic and very sudden, I can appreciate what you wrote. My brother died 20 years ago from a very freak accident and I will never forget it even though I was fairly young at the time. You really never know when you say good bye to somebody if it is for the last time. Just a lesson to all of us that we not take those around us for granted and to treasure life.
Tosha
O my keyboard is barely functional for it is awash with tears. Stirring stuff. More reading matter for me to leave, negligently drifted, next to the toilet, or accidentally on purpose, taped across a certain someone's computer screen. Or perhaps for me to read out and record onto a tape, then play it while my loved one sleeps as a rare break from playing eq. Subliminality? Thank you.
By the way, would someone mind cross posting this thread in the EQ Widows forums? I am not a member of EQ Widows at this time due to the huge amount of email I am working with.
Thank you!
Diggo
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
For those of you out there who laughed this post off and thought "that will never happen to me" think again. This past week, a very good friend of mine lost somebody close to her very suddenly. A simple blood clot and it was all over. This last week has taught me a lesson - hug those closest to you and let them know what they mean to you because you really don't know what today or tomorrow will bring.
And for those of you who are ignoring friends and family so you can get your epic or go on the raid with the guild, you are missing out big time. Are these raids and items more important than spending time with somebody you love? Just think about it.
Tosha
And I just found out my younger sister, of several years has stage 4 lung cancer....
I am glad I do not have to pick between a game or being with my loved ones....because the game maybe easier.....
Liz Woolley
Liz~
I'm so sorry to hear about your younger sister. My prayers are with you and your family.
I'd also just like to mention as others have, what a wonderful piece this was Diggo. You are an amazing writer!! It was so real in my mind, I was starting to well up with tears. Thank you for sharing that thought with all of us.
Because like many have said, you never know if the last time you tell someone good-bye, is truly the "last" good-bye. I say seize the day, and seize your friends and family as well. They are so precious to us...why not let them know?
What if someone spent many hours per week helping others. Spending time at a homeless shelter, working for Habitat for Humanity, serving food to the needy... then, only to return home to find cops at the door with the same bad news?
It seems to me Diggo that you are trying to to make people feel guilty for doing something unproductive like playing a game. That is what "Games" are for... If they weren't fun and unproductive they would be called "work".
I feel as if I should respond to the original post with 'what if you could have discovered the cure for cancer, or the secret of world peace, but you didn't because you spent too much time with your family?'
The perspective becomes warped, IMO.
No matter how good your eyesight is you still can't see into the future. And no matter how blind you are, hindsight will always be 20/20.
There is something to be said, probably a great deal to be said, for sometimes standing back and taking a peek at the things you might be missing. Skip a dragon raid once in awhile and go out to dinner with a friend, parent, sibling, significant other, whatever.
That being said, you can't let "what ifs" run your life. While it may not always be wise to live FOR the moment, it is usually ok to live IN the moment. If a loved one died in a car wreck, there was probably nothing you could have done to prevent it. If you had been with them, you'd be dead, too. In wich case EQ would have technically SAVED your life...
"I wish I'd spent more time with them." "I wish I'd been a better friend/husband/son/parent." "I wish we hadn't fought before you got into the car and drove away." Those are all perfectly valid regrets...but that's all they are: regrets. You can't change it, so why carry the baggage around? If the roles were reversed, the other person would be saying all of those things, too.
People die. Most of us don't have any control over when, where, or how it happens. People die. It sucks. But guess what? Every single time a person has died in human history, the sun came up the next day and the world kept spinning. Being born human saddles us with a burden no mule has ever had to carry: knowledge of our own mortality. That is the cross we bear.
Agreed. Do not let "What-ifs" run (or is it ruin?) your life.
Blood
P.S. Don't peddle this trash on other boards. You are acting like the Jehovah's Witnesses of EQ.
Blood
Actually, the message of my post was quite simple. Try to make the most of the time you have with your friends and family because you never know when they will be gone. You can try to read between the lines, but it doesn't make the message any less clear or insignificant. Unfortunately, it doesn't come home until you've lost someone and felt guilty because you didn't make the most of your time with that person. Hell, I mentioned EQ, but EQ was certainly not the point, nor was it meant to be.
When my father died in 1998, I had been spending more time with him over the previous 5 years than I had ever in my life. Meanwhile, my older brother (47 years old) had not. When my father did die, I was, and still am at peace about his passing knowing that I spent as much time as I could with him. My older brother now has serious guilt issues to deal with because he didn't.
The intent of my post was to merely cause you to take pause and evaluate, for even that one second, your relationships with your friends and family. If things hadn't been going well, perhaps you were now aware of this and could take steps to fix things. If you didn't have any issues, then you could just move on. That's it...really. I've always said if you want to play EQ, then play EQ...period. I have nothing against the game or those who play it.
As for Bloodbasher's comment above, I have no clue what you are trying to say there, friend.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Addicted to Everquest from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Every time i have read those little messages of your loved one dying horriably from some accident because you were doing other things.. i never answered, mostly because of my anger towards them.
if you delete this fine, point is its been read by the one intended for.
My brother died in 97 13 years old, by a drunk driver. he was killed instantly. the drunk driver got off with one year probation thats not my point.
My point, i was deployed then, there was alot going on in eastern europe at the time, i am sure you remember, i was there when it happend. Strangely enough we were relived from the field, i was anxious to simply relax until i got that red cross message. I asked god, out loud in front of about 200 people, why didn;t you take me? why a 13 year old? well time has passed. And diggy there are some things that are sacred to the the heart, I cannot go back, you cannot go back. we do as we do, and the only grace allowed to us. is the time spent. however its spent. I am not impressed with that very poor use for a reaction. to make people think, because all that is.. is anger. I agree with the above post in your intent for people to care for one another your words came out as being very arrogant and self-righteous. And that on its no matter what arguement is said, rests on the post.
the game is easier? yeah your right the game is easier when your holding some 17 year old kid when he is asking you what happend and you don't have the guts to tell him he just got blown in half. yeah the games easier alright.
You all say you want to heal people, but in your effort to heal you drag out the demons that have been hiding in the shadows.
It is only by dragging the demons out, that you can let them go, other wise, they will stay hiding in there, forever!
Thank you for sharing about yourself.
You are a very brave person. Thank you for defending our great country.
I am sorry about your brother.
Please keep coming back, and keep reading. Soften your heart, and see what is happening here. - it is nothing short of a miracle! People helping people come back to thier real life!
Sincerely,
Liz
Why didn't you take me?
Edited by: lizwool at: 12/10/02 6:59:42 am
Liz Woolley
I too am very sorry about your brother, Nallavenia. While I've not been touched personally by that kind of tragedy, I do have friends that have.
But while you have experienced the things you mentioned, most others have not. And it's not until something tragic like that happens that we realize the importance of and delicacy of life. I try to illustrate by sharing personal experiences as I did above, but until one has lived them first hand, he cannot possibly relate.
I'm sorry you consider my post self-righteous. It was nothing more than intended...just to give people pause who maybe haven't considered just how sudden their lives can change.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
This was posted elsewhere so allow me to give you the same response:
"I have had friends die during the time that I played EQ. My 2 best friends infact. One who I had distanced myself from due to his excessive use of drugs which was getting him in trouble. He died from a drug related incident.
The other was a fellow EQ player, and quite possibly the most decent caring human being I ever met. He died from a ruptured vein in his brain at age 19.
Yes I had time to think about what I was doing with my life and how fleeting it was. It was then that I realized that I could die any second.
The best thing to do is have as much fun as you can before you go, not to be paranoid about you and your loved ones dying. They are going to die. So are you. Deal with it and accept it. Perhaps though I have become a bit pessimistic with all the people who died around me in about a 2 month period. I just don't really care. My friend is gonna die? well s**t guess we better just have some fun together while we can. Fortunately my interests coincide with my friends' and at least half of them play EQ, so often we spend time grouping.
I suppose how you react depends on who you have relationships with. Obvisiouly when you have large amounts of non-EQ friends you would spent your time doing other things. But if you are like me, most of your friends cant hang out for more then 5 minutes without talking about something related to EQ. Its a common interest and we have a lot of fun with it.
All that matters in this life is happiness, don't let others tell you what is fun. You want to play EQ? Do it. Don't want to? Don't.
When you die all you do will begin to turn to dust, empires fall, nations crumble, history and people accomplishments get lost in the sands of time. Have a blast with what time you have here, and try to ensure that others will be able to enjoy the same pleasure in future generations"
I agree with that, Vylo.
I'm not saying obsess about the people you have in your life. Just give it a thought. If you feel that you need to spend time with someone that you've been putting off, then take the time and move on. If you feel that you are ok with the relationships you have, then move on.
Life is meant to be lived, however one wishes to do it, it's his choice. Perhaps one person after reading my post, picked up the phone to call an old friend, or perhaps she hugged her husband or boyfriend or life partner a little harder and longer that night. Perhaps a mother took an extra minute to tell her mischievous child how much she loves him.
If any of those things happened after reading my post, then that's all I could ask.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Quite a somber yet happy post.
I do have to say though that through EQ I have found the most wonderful person I have ever met.
We met online in EQ about a year and a half ago. We played together for awhile and became great friends, online. After time moved we helped each other through lifes little and big problems, online. After a while we agreed to talk to each other on the phone.
We admitted at one point that we were falling in love and decided to explore the possibilities. We decided to meet in real life and through strange circumstances I was sent to her state on business at which point we finally met.
To make a long story short... My life up until the point I met her had been empty. I didn't know it until I met her. She has filled such an incredible void in my life I could not begin to describe it.
I still play EQ. She also still plays but not as much. We still enjoy it, for the most part. Now we have no need of being together all the time online because all I have to do is lean over and give her a little peck on the cheek or her arm a little squeeze. She plays primarily on weekends but I play every day, probably more than 40 hours a week. I will always however make time for her and to make sure she knows how much she means to me. (Yes I keep busy...)
I know what I have and I hope others kknow what they have also. It doesn't take much to put a smile on your loved ones face. I tell her many times a day how much I love her and send her little notes to work in her lunch from time to time.
You can never appreciate your loved ones too much. Call them now, write them an email. Just make them smile, it will make you feel wonderful and them too.
I came here from an EQ message board wondering what all the huff was about. I find a lot of what is here disturbing and humorous at the same time but this post however I just had to submit
-Sid
Thanks for sharing, Sidilian. I think it's awesome that you were able to find someone to share your life with. I've no doubt that many good things can come out of playing online games. I'm glad that both you, and your special lady have found each other and are happy, illustrating this point.
/cheers!
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
If the "simple message" of the post was to remind us of life and that it should be lived, then why not just say so instead of entwining the "simple message" with the playing of an online video game you are clearly opposed to?
I could be doing one of a thousand things, as several other posters have mentioned, and a friend or loved one could die. Playing EQ isn't the precursor to a friend or family member's death, nor would their deaths happen only while a person is playing the game.
Regardless of when a friend or family member dies, the circumstances of their death, or what you were doing at the moment you became aware of it...there will likely always be regrets over things unsaid and undone.
My paternal grandmother - extremely beloved to me - died in March 2000, 1200 miles away from where I lived at the time. When I was informed of her death, I had only just even heard of EverQuest (and was still six months away from playing it for the first time)...but I had regrets over not making sure she knew what she meant to me.
Quote:Our Mission
On-Line Gamers Anonymous is a fellowship of people sharing their experience, strengths and hope to help each other recover and heal from the problems caused by compulsive game playing.
Why is it you specificly target EverQuest as your source of Hate? You can call it whatever you want, but what it boils down to is you dislike the game. This isn't a forum for anonymous people, you all give your real names out. In reality, you're a bunch of hypocrites. Blame something else for something YOU didn't do. I can do that all day, and you know, all you're doing is making a scapegoat out of something YOU control.
It's prepostreous to claim that EverQuest, or for the matter, any game is addicting. There is no physical need for the game, it's purely mental. An addiction is something that you need to go on, need to live (in your opinion, this isn't necessarily true, as in the case of Tobacco). You cannot claim something thats a mental addiction to be a physical addiction, and if you do, it's pure bullsh**.
Next topic
Don't try to mix your problems with your family with an online game. It's not this "addiction" that causes you to sit there endlessly, its you wanting to do this. It's fun, to be honest. I spend very little time with my mother, who is dying of Chronic Lung, Heart, and Brain cancer. Do I feel any regret? No. Will I feel regret? No. I'm a cold, and heartless person. I spent 17 years of my life living with my mom before she kicked me out of the house. I'll miss her like no other when she passes on, but I'm not gonna blame a video game for my not spending time with her. [Oh, and before you go saying your prayers are with her, don't waste your time. My family is Agnostic. Your god is false, to us.]
A game does not control you. No addiction does. Stop claiming it does. I've been through 7 drug addictions in my life, and i'm only 18. None of them forced me to take them, none of them took my time away from something more important. It was my choice to take them daily, it was my choice to hold up the addiction.
Anyone who claims an addiction changed thier lifestyle, blames not spending time with family, or not doing other things is a complete and utter liar. YOU choose what to do, YOU allowed yourself to not spend time with your family, or not get out, not the game.
Next Topic
Commenting on the list of things to do besides EQ..
You do these actions more than once a month, or add them all up for sh**s and giggles.. Guess what, it's more than the 30$ (Max) for power, and the 12.95$ for EverQuest subscription. You go out, risking exposure to the elements (rain, heat, cold), to germs, viruses, and bacteria (and stds, if you go to clubs and raves and etc). You also risk the chance of a violent outbreak from someone around you, losing you or someone you care for in the process. Instead, you could be at home, interacting with 200+ people AT ONCE (who the hell cares if you see someones face, it's the personality that matters, right?), there is no risk to any damage to you besides that which you inflict upon yourself (in the case of Ms. Wooley's son.), and YOU BREATH CLEANER AIR! So all-in-all, EQ is a better way to spend your time than going outside.
A good example of this is what my friends and I do. We each take our computers (Mine being a laptop), go to one persons house, set up a home network, and play Online Video Games. Are we addicted? No. Do we get out like you people say we need to? Yes.
Think before you comment on this, stupidity is hilarious only but a short period of time.
[edit - noticed something else]
Take the challenge? Break the CDs? Good way to possibly injure yourself. Heck, thats a good waste of money too by breaking CDs, why not sell them at a Flea Market, or Garage Sale?
-Nandar Stormstrider
-57th(8) Preserver of Transcendant Glory
-Beloved of Santerai Stormstrider
Edited by: Nandar Stormstrider at: 12/14/02 4:18:45 am
Quote:It's prepostreous to claim that EverQuest, or for the matter, any game is addicting. Gambling is a game and it is addictive.
Liz Woolley
Having lost grandparents, and one parent, before ever having a knowledge EQ or other online games existed, I must say you always have regrets when someone dies.You always say "I wish I had done this or I wish I had done that."
It is important that we show people in our lives how we feel about them, but we dont always take the time we should to do so, and it will probably always be that way, with or without on-line games.
Whether it be work , TV or online gaming.
I refuse to blame anything or anyone for things I SHOULD HAVE DONE.
Its called taking responsibilty for ones own actions.
Edited by: bungwa at: 12/14/02 11:46:32 am
Hum,
This is a hard one, But not that hard. I lost my parents at the ripe age of 6 and then lost my brother at age of 8, we were sent to seprate homes. SO my feeling would be a sober one. There would be no tears and sad faces just an nod and possibly a grunt and then i move on and figure out what i need to do. Just to help you all at the age of 16 i was told my father die and we had to go to the funeral. I did lose them when i was 6 its just..... My mother died from the car wreck and my father was put in a colma for 10 years. He was considered a veggie by the hospital staff. His glasses he wore broken when he hit the steering wheel and wehn in his head he had 1/4 of his brain left. MY anuts and uncles i stayed with used him and storys as a punishment for me and my brother.
They say he jumped up and grab a nurse before then take us down to tell him everything we did wrong.. SO death and the formallity of death is a lost cause on me we die we live only one knows when that time will end and he wont tell you.
Also my parents were good people dad wad a southern baptist minster. Mom was a home maker.
that about all you will get out of me unless it was one of my 3 girls ( wife and daughters)
Also the last part of finding out it was a dream is a bit why iam here to see what else is out there, my wife asked me for the last time and i tooke the warning as it is.
alaco/jason
Edited by: alaco2 at: 12/14/02 3:32:56 pm
A Man can spend a life time asking "What if.." Why would you want to? Edit: Diggo. Send me an email. Hotmail closed out my account and I had to re-do it.
What if, while your spending time with your son for example.. Lets say he just turned 21 and as part of his birthday, you and him are in the garage, drinking a couple of beers, and you look at your son and realize what a great man he has grown up to be, and while you and your son are enjoying his first beer, a police officer walks up into the garage and tells you the same bad news of your wife or sister or whatever dying?? You see, what you're doing at the time on the insident doesn't change that fact that you lost someone you love, and therefor, you cannot blame the game.
Nathan
killing is like a drug, once you try it... you get addicted!
It's quite obvious what he was talking about guys. Don't be dumb. SO much time is spent in EQ, espacially in the higher end game. Some people can log on and off at certain hours but most people log on every spare moment they have and usually forget the RL surrounding them. I know this from experience as I have lived through playing the game since 1999, every spare moment I had...and you know what happened..? FIVE f*cking days after I decided to quit the game, my little brother in law who was just 15 years old, killed himself. What I wouldn't give just to go back in time and put aside a little more of my spare time into hanging out with him and taking him out to the movies or even out for a slushy or something!! Type /played and add up the hours you've literally spent away from doing things outside the game. Who knows..maybe if I hadn't spent so much time in game, and even supported my husband playing so much too..our little brother might still be around. We could have probably spent more time with him when he was alive.
hhhmmm...you mentioned forgetting the real life around them, that is the problem, not the fact a person spends time in an online game.
There are questions to ask here .. ..why do people spend time in roll playing games?....an answer could be to spend time away from real life issues.
When a person has diffuclty telling the difference betwen the 2 or spends too much time in the rpg...it seems to me that the person has some under lying issues with there real life circumstances.
That is what should be looked at , why they are spending so much time away from REAL LIFE , not the fact they spend that time in an rpg.
If a person feels the need to escape there real life issues , it doesnt matter what they are doing , but why they are doing it.
If it wasnt an rpg it may be something else or maybe simply becoming totally non social and not doing anything.
You cannot blame the activity you or another person choose to use to withdraw from social activities.
You must blame the real problems that are causing this person to act in this manner.
The rpg is just a sympton of a deeper underlying real problem.
A Story.2 Flatemates who lived together.One was a Healthy ,athletic conscientious person.The other your usual lay about couch potato.One day the Healthy flatmate went out for his usual morning run..and was killed by a car.In all things life is about choices.So no matter how many " what if's" will ever change this.
As a society today..and America holds the greater cause of this..we continue to shun responsibilty for our own actions.
What if's can help no one and no thing.We each and all make our own choices in life, and we each and all need to be responsible for them.
So..when were all done looking to blame someone,as we all do.
Stop just one moment and take a look in the mirror.
Hopeful Warsong, you're wrong, MOST players don't forget the real world, otherwise there would be a hell of a lot more people having problems and blaming the game. But aside from that I'm sorry about your lose.. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose my brother, and I hope I never find out... You have my sympathy...
Nathan
killing is like a drug, once you try it... you get addicted!
OMG!! What if I logged on today to find that one of my long time friends in the game had died?? What if his gf logged on and left a message that he had been in a car crash and died on the way to the hospital?? Wouldn't I be just as sorry that I had NOT played more and spent more time with him online?
Bad things happen and no matter what you are doing, you will feel guilty that you dind't do things differently.
Sorry diggity your post does nothing for me.
x
In all seriousness, what is a Flatemate? Is it a gaming word for a type of person...one I haven't heard yet? Hmmmmm...
**Where we go one, we go all**
--Merid--
Flatmate = roommate; it's generally used by those who speak English as opposed to American (you know what I mean?).
Sionach An'Talamh, Retired Outrider
Ok, now I am mad. This was nothing more than a pathetic attempt at toying with emotions to get a response. Did you bother to stop once and ask yourself if anyone might have actually gone through a similar experience? Did you care that bringing up these powerful emotions for the purpose of toying with them and perverting them into a stupid piece of propaganda might actually cause someone pain?
Do you really hate everquest that much? Are you really that blinded by your own stupid hatred? You my friend and you liz and you tosha all need help. You are all so addicted to hating EQ that you really donaEU(tm)t care what or who you trample to push your perverted hatred.
Sure we all have regrets when someone dies. If my wife died on her way home from work would I stop and wonder if maybe I should have spent a couple more hours with her than playing EQ? Sure! But I would wonder more if I should have spent less time at work, sleeping, arguing with her, etc. Truth is I spend a good deal of my time with her because even after these 5 years since marriage and many more before it I am still deeply in love with her and enjoy spending time with her. But I am terrified she will die because she is a horrible driver, for this reason I have bought her a very big SUV so she is more likely to kill someone else and not herself, and I am building a house right across the street from where she works. Do I take this seriously? Abso****inglutly! Did I need you representing it in a way that was so propagandist the Conspiracy theory editors are looking for you to write for next months issue? NO! Till now I had respect for most of you, and felt sorry for what was happening to your board. Now I feel no sympathy and am considering posting a link to here on every EQ board I can find.
I really loved my grandfather; he was always my favorite person. When I was a little kid I always wanted to sleep at his house at the foot of his bed, I always talked to him and wanted did stuff with him. We had a great relationship. But one thanksgiving 6 years back now as me and my wife where engaged with a marriage date coming up she wanted me to travel across the country to meet her whole family (of whom I had met bits and pieces but never all at once and not yet all of them) yet on the same day I was supposed to fly out my grandfather was scheduled for what was supposed to be a simple surgery with no risk of death. I told him I loved him before I left and went but left thinking I would see him again. When I arrived at my wifeaEU(tm)s parentaEU(tm)s house there was a message waiting for me saying he had died of complications in the surgery. Now here I was thousands of miles away thinking if only I had stayed and not gone to meet my wifeaEU(tm)s family. This was a real experience for me and what you have done by perverting it into a piece of propaganda is unacceptable.
How in the hell would you feel if while you where on your appellation trail hike you got to one of your drop spots to find nothing there waiting. When you reached a phone to find out how you found out that while you where gone someone broke into your house had their way with your wife and kids killed them and then had their way with them again. You suddenly found yourself in the middle of nowhere with this knowledge of a gruesome event that befell your loved ones several days ago while you where happily enjoying nature. Now how would you feel if you got back home and several months later went to a web page where someone was trying to convince people that being addicted to hiking was a bad thing and to push their point posted a short story about a mans family meeting a tragic death while he was out hiking for 6 months and how that man should have been with his wife instead of with the squirrels? Would this make you happy? Would it persuade you that you should not have been addicted to nature? What if you read that before you went on your hike, would it persuade you then?
And you liz, you have lost a son and seem to be loosing a sister, yet you applaud this obvious perversion of those emotions. Are you that blinded by your hatred for EQ? You people need to take a step back and examine your priorities, because you have managed to get them much further out of wack than any EQ addict I know. It is you who needs to wake up and smell the roses!
Some things are just better left un-messed with. Emotions is one of those things!
People who play EQ can still have a balance and have a RL just as those who don't play EQ or have given it up will still find other ways to spend time that might take away time from RL. Everyone is in charge of their own fate, and it is up to each of us to decide how we feel is best to spend the time we have. It would be a beautiful world if people would learn to accept everyones personal choices and not condemn them before knowing what they do with their life or for doing what they enjoy. Good luck to all of you and enjoy life however you choose to live it.
~Julie
Edited by: Hawkfeather Rowe at: 12/16/02 4:54:28 pm
While this story is somewhat touching, and I give my praise for
your time and effort in writing this, I must also note that this
is only a single scenario in a much broader play called LIFE.
No matter the circumstances, the loss of a loved or cherished
friend, family member, individual, etc. leaves people clinging to
regrets of not having said or done something before that
person was lost. I can't think of a single year that has gone
by since I was about 5 years old that I haven't lost at least
one loved family member or friend. I thought I would get off
easy this year, but I lost a cousin of mine Wednesday Dec 11
to a car accident. He was sideswiped and knocked over a
bridge by a 16 year old with a learner's permit driving alone.
My aunt and grandmother (soon to die herself) both want to
blame this kid, but I think that if this kid has any decency, the
guild he is experiencing will be more punishment than most
people would deliver. Also note, I haven't seen or talked with
my cousin Chris in quite a few years, since I left for college
and then left to join the military. I would have liked to have
seen him more, but rarely visit my old home, and he had a life
of his own. Do I regret not having seen him more? Yes. Is
there anything I can do about it? No. As it turns out, I was
playing EQ when I received the phone call. I'm drifting away
from my point, so I'll state this: Loved ones can die at any
moment, no matter what the circumstances or what event you
are participating in. I think people should definately spend
time with their loved ones, and try to find things that you can
do together with them that you enjoy, but one shouldn't live
in fear that his/her loved ones will pass away while he/she is
doing something they enjoy. I tend to lose the point I'm
looking for but post regardless. I swear, there was a point I
was going to get to sooner or later, but not for now...
Sehperin the misanthropic
Derek Holmes
USAF
Dinglehopper, I'm very sorry about your grandfather. If that had happened to me, I'm not sure how I would have handled it. I just hope that I would have been strong enough to be there for my family. I can understand your anger toward me and this post, even though its only intent was to give those pause, who perhaps hadn't thought about something like that before.
Many people see my post as it was intended...just to make people think. Yet, others see it merely as a cheap way to make people feel guilty for playing EQ so much. Again, this is one of the problems of the limitations of language that allows a simple thought to be so widely interpreted.
As a writer, I like to challenge people to stretch their understanding of the world they live in by presenting things from different perspectives that they might not have considered before. Once in a while, a given piece might really hit home with someone for one reason or another and to him it might seem that my intentions were to be critical or offensive. But for me to do that would just be counterproductive to my work here, and besides I think it would be a disgrace for me to use my wordcrafting gift to harm another.
I hope that you will search within, to not only release the anger you feel when you think of this post, but also to realize that its only intent was to give someone pause who might not have considered how fragile and temporary our lives are here on this earth. We should not dwell on this point and live every day thinking about it. But we should consider it from time to time.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I see your point Diggo, can can I ask would this also apply to any other activity that one might be partaking in. What if instead the person was an avid golfer? My father golfs 6 times a week for an average of 30 hours a week. Bad news can come at anytime .... I also just lost a cousin of mine very suddenly at a very young age of a heart attack and I was playing EQ at the time I found out. I do not feel bad about being on EQ at the time at all but I will miss her all the same and I do cherish the times we had . If I wasn't on EQ I would have been out or at a friends place or doing something and most likely would not have found out till the next day. I will not lament over the time I play EQ or my hobbies or sports. Bad things happen all the time and will continue to happen no matter what. Life is to be lived and enjoyed and such scenarios can not be avoided because if you were not actually there when it happens you will be doing something else. So why not something that you enjoy.
Grummpy Oldman High Priest
Yes, Grummpy, in fairness it could apply to anything. My reference to the game was only because this forum is relating to the game. I could probably change what the individual was doing and post this story on any site and it would be relevant there.
My real intent of this post was not to say that you should play EQ less because you never know when someone you love may be gone. It was just that each of us should take inventory of where we are with our relationships every once in a while. If we see a deficiency somewhere, then we should try to fix it. If we feel good with where we are in our relationships with our loved ones, then we should get back to life and live it, without dwelling on this point for another second.
When my father died from emphysema 3 years ago, tomorrow in fact , it was the first immediate family member that I had lost. Since that day, I've tried to be more cognizant about my relationships without dwelling on them. I had only become close to him his last few years. I was 35 when he died.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I am sorry for your loss , lossing a loved one can be very hard . I have been there tomany times and know I will be there again.
Thank you for clearing up the point of your post, Yes it is a very valid point. To have regrets of that kind is not something I would ever wish to experience.
Grummpy Oldman High Priest
Ok one final post.A simple question for our moderator.How much time do you spend in front of your computer posting and working on this board ??. What would YOU do .Think about it.
And finally a thought..How much time do you and other non players spend watching the ugly mindless dribble on the TV..My Outlaws ( Inlaws for those who don't know) constantly whine about the fact I do sit in front of the computer and play. However they spend even more time in front of the TV than i do playing . Now I know damm well which is better for you..can you work it out ...
FYI on average i spend about 2 hours a nite playing EQ..And I do it when everyone is asleep.
Don't you need your sleep?
Liz Woolley
it appears that most of these eq bashers are purely jealous that they can't balance gaming and real life. professional help is out there. It's often free too for those without medical insurance, but coming here to get psychiatric help from people who never attended medical school is far more damaging to your mental health than playing EQ. Listening to someone's sob story about how EQ ruined their life is not going to help you with your addiction, it's just going to ensure that your hatred towards an inanimate object such as a 'game' is justifying your loser life. I've seen more posts where people had these amazing homes, amazing cars, amazing material possessions and then lost it. Sorry folks.. it was not because of EQ that you lost those things... it was because you probably suffer from a personality disorder. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is what I'm seeing bleed through these testimonials. You cannot cure that by talking to some faceless stranger. Medicinal intervention is needed in this case or it will get worse. If anything make this board private, requiring a password so that people who seriously want to share their addiction can join in and flamers can't come in and ruin whatever therapy you're trying to accomplish. I am a FIRM believer in mental disorders, have dealt with family members that have it and quite frankly if they said "I"m going to write on a message board rather than take my Haldol or Zoloft" I would have tied them up and marched them into a doctor's office myself.
Biny Weenie,
We are trying not to be so black and white here.
Please, let us get off the blaming here.
It is not your right to tell another person how he/she must believe.
You can have your beliefs, but please respect the beliefs of others, without judging them, as I have been told many times on this board.
Liz
Liz Woolley
Life is black and white Liz. Heh. I'd rather live life now as I want it to be, I'll see my family, etc on the holidays. Some families are different than other's and every person is different.
Some people are introverted, some are extroverted, and some are a bit of both. This forum judges those who play online games as it is. And per your analysis..
Gambling -> Game = Addictive. Life -> Addictive = Game. Enjoy your game of life while you have it. I know I have been.
**************
Admin Note 3/29/03: This controversial post touched the nerve of alot of folks as you will read their replies below - I wanted to bump it, not to stir up a hornet's nest, but to help move some of you out of your comfort level and consider a couple things that you might not have otherwise. This post was not intended to be an accusation of any kind or an indictment of EQ or its players, despite how some have interpreted it. But I invite you to open your heart and mind and just consider what I've written below. If you are indifferent to what I've written, then you probably have no issues with either your playtime or your relationships. If you are saddened or angry, then I ask you only to look inside yourself to seek the reasons for this pain. - Ron *************
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
As the resident EQ player here, I feel I should respond.
While your post is very sad Mr. Diggity, for the most part, I dont feel its applicable. Just as several people have said, it could be anything they were doing.
I see where you are coming from, however I feel this was a bit extreme to get your point across.
Just my 2 cents, of course.
If I had a gun,
there'd be no tomorrow.
-I'll Be That Girl
Barenaked Ladies
Luvrol Wolffury, 47 druid
Brien Prylok, 27 bard
Necromer, 24 necromancer
Officer(s) of Valiant Heroes.
November 18, 2005
This is an interesting thread. I'm not quite sure of why it was bumped up now, but it does show off two things very well... how painful it can be for some, when real life gets as real as it gets while the virtual world remains flatly unchanged, only the names of the players change. And second, how pointless some of the posts can be during a flame war.
To those of you who have not experienced a flame war, take a look, this is a low-grade assault. Post after post after post from people who claim that gaming is not addictive. Thankfully, in the three years since this thread was active, gaming addiction has become more mainstream and people who suffer from it are not automatically insane.
I must go, I have to play with my baby son now. Real world, so much better than gaming...
Leveling in Real Life
It's unfortunate that a lot of folks took this post in a negative way, though it was (thankfully!) not as bad as it could have been "flame- wise". Just thinking about how this might have been responded to if it were posted on some mainstream gaming forum makes me cringe a little.
It's good that a few understood the point of "death" is inevitable and we likely won't see it coming for us or our loved ones, so make the most of the time you have with them. Regrets after a loved one dies are also inevitable, even if someone did say, spend the last 2 years with the person day in and day out "living life to the fullest", so to speak. There will always be "What if's", and thoughts about how the time could have been spent better.
(And now I type a point to people who left this thread 2 years ago)
Though I might be speaking for Diggo a bit here, I believe person "xa" who received the news in the original post was meant to be an example of a person who lead a destructively addictive lifestyle (gaming was used as the example in this case). I don't believe person "xa" in the original post was someone who lived a happy and healthy life, gaming casually on the side, and happened to receive the horrible news while he was in game.
Gaming was used as an example because this is a gaming forum. This same post could have been made to any other forum dedicated to addiction, and the main point would have been the same. You can replace "gaming" with any other topic if you put it in perspective of the original intent; Making sure you dedicate time for what's important.
You were at a coffee shop when you received the news? Fine. Are you a lvl. 60 Coffee drinker? Do you have a lvl. 45 Mocha & lvl. 30 Espresso drinker alts? Do you run over to the coffee shop and sit drinking coffee for 8+ hours a day after you're off work? Do you make excuses for hanging out with friends/family so you can go and drink coffee? If that were my situation when I received the news, then I probably would regret the amount of time I spent drinking coffee instead of spending time with my friends and family.
Great post Diggo.
- Max
This post was brought back to light, by our Tommy. (See post from November 17.) p198.ezboard.com/folgafrm1.showMessage?topicID=942.topic
Liz
Liz Woolley