Regarding online "friends"

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TindaleTZ
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Re: Regarding online "friends"

"I played my halfling druid with the best roleplaying skills I could muster. " Thats yer first problem right there. And lol most of the people on my buddy lists on chat programs like aim are from eq, perhaps theyre not into long story-like emails and maybe would rather have a real conversation with you? Dont say everyone else doesnt have friends from eq just because the 3 rejects you knew are @#%$.

Manaw Griefs -Ranger of Dynasty, Morgan Le Fay server. Uber links o_O

Diggo McDiggity
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Re: Regarding online "friends"

Quote:"I played my halfling druid with the best roleplaying skills I could muster. " Thats yer first problem right there. Yes, silly me...thinking that people who would play a MMORPG would actually roleplay.
Early EQ was like that though, people did truly make an effort to roleplay as a good number of people who played EQ at the beginning had come from paper RPGs like D&D. Those that did really enchanced the EQ experience as a whole back then.

Very few roleplay anymore because it actually takes an effort, unlike sitting and camping the same mobs for 6-8 levels at a time before moving on the next mob to camp. And hey, that's fine if that's the way they choose to play. It's their money. But a good number of people who have left EQ in disgust, left because of the assanine and immature way that a growing number of people were acting. These people bring their "First Person Shooter" mentality where the goal is for one to survive and beat everyone else, to a game which is centered around cooperative play.

One of the best features of EQ which was seldom if ever used on our server was the /guildwar feature. To have one large guild with basecamp in WK and another with basecamp in EK and have NK as the battlefiled is a fantastic opportunity for roleplaying and cooperative play. But in almost 3 years, I only saw people do this a total of 3 times. Why? Because "live" players are harder to fight than a pack of 4 snared dwarves or othmirs that you hit with an AOE every 10 seconds. Also, guildwars don't give any experience. I came to EQ to roleplay and I guess I just got tired of those people who were acting as idiotic in the game as they did in real life.Quote:Dont say everyone else doesnt have friends from eq just because the 3 rejects you knew are @#%$.I never said that everyone else doesn't have friends, I said that the relationships change and not every friendship you have that you think is a solid, close relationship in game will carry over after you leave EQ.
Ron

Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
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Edited by: Diggo McDiggity at: 12/26/02 6:55:10 pm

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Aphrodeia
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Re: New RL Friends

I think I would disagree with the blanket statement that 12hrs in Norrath is a bad thing. There will always be exceptions, and I just happen to have one here!

One of the guides I had the blessing of meeting at Fan Faire has spent 80+ hours on server per week, every week, since she was an apprentice some years ago. People were really, really worried about this. After all, that CAN'T be normal, and her life must be suffering horribly. Besides, I bet she plays, too! Way too much time online. But this was a very special, integral part of her life. She is disabled, without work, unable to do much out of the home. Her server is very important to her, and she's a joy to speak with. She finds happiness in making a difference.

For people who don't need to work/aren't able, don't have family, or have few other commitments, there is little wrong with playing 12hrs at a time frequently. (Apart from the whole meals/bathroom/exercise inconvenience, of course.) There are some people who can work long playtimes into their schedules without making a negative impact.

Not trying to start a debate over how many actually fall into this category, I'm just trying to thin the brush we're using to paint players with.

Lisa

Diggo McDiggity
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Re: New RL Friends

Quote:I think I would disagree with the blanket statement that 12hrs in Norrath is a bad thing. There will always be exceptions, and I just happen to have one here!Ah, well I didn't mean 12-hour long stints were bad. I certainly had my share of those. But 12-hour stints every day I think is not the most healthy practice.Quote:Besides, I bet she plays, too! Way too much time online. But this was a very special, integral part of her life. She is disabled, without work, unable to do much out of the home.Well, not to sound like too much of a heartless ****, but it's kind of hard to find work when you are playing 12 hours a day. It's also not hard to understand why, if she is spending most of her time socializing and forming relationships with people in game, that the server and its members mean so much to her.
I've tried to make it a point in my short life so far to try and get to know people who have had disabilities or other significant challenges in their lives and who have overcome them.

I tried to understand how someone who is a quadriplegic motivates himself to achieve great things, write numerous books, get several masters degrees, etc., while able-bodied people decide that the world owes them everything and they live their lives in poverty with a black cloud hanging over them, hating everyone when they realize they aren't going to get a free ride. What makes two individuals like those above, with similar upbringing and economic backgrounds be on completely opposite sides of the spectrum?

As an example, there is a man in his 40s in our neighborhood and I've seen him around since I moved into this house in 1990. He is a quadriplegic and has a motorized wheelchair. Every day when I first moved in, I would see him drive his wheelchair from his house, down the sidewalk past my house and another 10-12 blocks to get to downtown Orlando. He always had a big bucket of fresh red roses, and later that evening around 7pm, I would see him riding back down past my house and around the corner, but with all or most of the roses gone.

On weekends after dark, I would often see him making a second trip to hit the evening folks who dined and walked around downtown at night.

One day I stopped him and decided to speak with him. I learned that has Cerebral Palsy and this job of his is how he supports his wife and two children. Not only that, but after 15 years of saving up, he was able to purchase a new house for himself and his family. When I expressed how fantastic I thought that was, he was actually a little taken back and said, "Isn't that what you would do for your family?" I thought about it for a while and realized that what I perceived to be a lifelong hinderence, was to him only a small inconvenience. He was focused on what he wanted to do, rather than what he could NOT do. That is the distinction I learned.

Since then, to be honest, I generally am not sympathetic with those who might feel they are not intelligent enough, or good looking enough, or young enough, or are able-bodied enough, or rich enough, to do those things in life they would really like to do. Because no matter how bad off someone is, there is someone who is worse off who IS doing what they really want to do.

When we fail...we can either choose to see our failure as the end of the line, or instead as simply one more more thing out of the way to prevent us from reaching our goal.

Sorry for my digression, but this was a point I am fairly sensitive to.

The other issues with playing for 12 hours a day frequently is that most who do aren't very active in their lives in general. The body is a machine that regenerates, heals and keeps itself healthy through exercise, proper nutrition, aerobic breathing and fresh air. Our vision stays strong with regular exercises as our eyes focus in and out and are exposed to varying light levels throughout the day.

Our various muscles and tendons stay strong through regular use that comes with moving the body around on a given day. Our bodies were meant to be used, otherwise we just atrophy, losing our strength and endurance, our aerobic fitness and our mental clarity. While games can make us think sharper, without the exercise and proper nutrition that many of those who play 12 hours a day often do not get, the detriments far outweigh the benefits.

Now there are some, I'm sure, who are quite active when they are not playing and who still maintain 12-hour game stretches often and who have no problems, but I would bet those are in the minority.

Ron

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Kiriani
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Re: Regarding online "friends"

I've always been a bit of a lone wolf. At least, i always thought so. It wasn't until I overheard a conversation my sister was having with some mutual friends that I realized that I really was quite popular, despite my (sometimes unconscious) efforts to distance myself. I still have trouble believing it.
The friends I have I can say I am fiercly loyal to. I am known to bend over backwards for my friends. Over the years though, I have learned that my loyalty cannot go without effort on the other's part, and as such, I have abandoned former friends who truly weren't a friend but more of a friend of convenience.

There are a select few friends I try to keep in regular contact with, but often, I leave the effort to them. This comes from various reasons.

One, my time is often divided among many projects and people. I have my house to maintain, I help with my sister's household, I game (obviously), I'm an artist, and my job is non-stop it seems. Those are some minor examples. My job is also very stressful, as is my relationship with my family. This usually prevents me from calling friends because I am at a point where I don't want to speak to anyone.

E-mail has become a chore. By time I am done deleting spam, I am really not of the mind to start a letter. Replies, however, I will always give, and so long as I am being e-mailled, I will e-mail a person back. The same goes for phone calls, despite my annoyance with speaking on the phone. Actually, it's more of an annoyance caused by the phone always ringing at the worst times. I can talk for hours on end in person, but tend to be very short and distracted while on the phone.

Then there's my moods. I'm bi-polar. Not a severe case, but enough to have affected my life. For years many people just called me moody and looked past it. My own family (save my little siter who has a bi-polar child as well) was in denial that there was a problem. Often I don't want to be near anyone, or talk to anyone, and then come the days where I cannot get enough. For the most part, my problems are kept in check, I've learned various coping skills, and I have not let my dysfunctions run my life (although I am on the upward climb after a severe downfall). Despite it all, however, I am not always an easy person to maintain any form of relationship with. Those who stick it out have usually proven themselves quite well.

What's all this have to do with friends? especially online ones?

People who are around me every day and know about me are more accepting and forgiving of my quirks. Even so, I am a difficult person to maintain a friendship with because my tendancy to step back and take a break from the world when the weight on my shoulders grows too heavy.

Online friends are different, in that they do not get to spend the amount of time around you, see the body language and hear the tone in your voice, or many of the other nuances that can change a seemingly sarcastic comment into a jovial one, for example. HOWEVER, they do get to see the real you. Online, you are more prone to say what you would normally bite back because of the impersonality involved. You can simply log off to avoid repercussions, or when it gets to be too much.

However, I have met people on AOHell (when I used it), UO, EQ, and various other gaming/internet circles (not neccesarily MMORPG) that have become every bit as good as my closest IRL friends. I keep in contact with them when time allows, and have met several of them.

The major difference is whether you have made a TRUE friend, or whether it is simply an acquaintance. At one point, you could say I had hundreds of friends. In reality, I had very few close friends, several good friends, and the rest were pretty much just acquaintences or friends of convenience. This is both true of my online friends and my real-world friends.

Where the problem tends to come for most people is the inability to distinguish an acquaintance, a friend of conveniance, etc. from one another. In a game like EQ, UO, AO, etc. friends will come and go. It's a difficult environment to maintain a friendship. One week you could think the world of a person, then within a day see his or her true colors bleed through. It's also especially hard because you don't know who is sitting at the other end of the network connection, and what their motives, intentions, or even their true personality is.

The general rule of thumb I have found to most often work is a simple screening process. Pay attention to what the person says or does. Listen closely, because things will slowly filter in to conversations that will give you an idea of whether the person is "being real" or not. Make them put forth some effort to contact you, instead of you chasing them down to chat, run with, whatever. Discuss things not at all associated with the game, such as hobbies, childhood, whatever. In other words, do what you would do when you make a real-world friend, but do it much more slowly or stringently.

the lines of distinction are often blurred by opinions of the ignorant.


kiriani@familjenguild.com
Ranger of TunareFamiljen Saryrn
"Sometimes the Laws of Man must be broken in order to do what is right."

Diggo McDiggity
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Re: Regarding online "friends"

/Bump.

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Wow, I just stumbled across

Wow, I just stumbled across this old post and wanted to write saying that I've had the *exact* same experience as Diggo -- not only in EQ but also later in WoW. You would have thought I'd learned my less on EQ, but I thought I'd formed a stronger relationship with people in Warcraft after running a large guild. I returned to the game for WoTLK (before quitting MMOs for good) and looked up many folks to see how they were doing after a year's absence. Even though people were very excited to see me on, there was nothing to talk about but the game. Nothing. I tried asking about their lives, other events, and found it just as hollow as when I'd try to stay in touch with people from EQ so many years before. People can be very friendly in game. And the conversations can be real enough at time. But there is no substance there, and nothing lasting. Online friendships are like scarecrows in a corn field. And after four years in Warcraft, I have no outside social life to speak of. I still have friends that I see on occasion and talk to plenty of people via work, but all my casual friends are gone. I haven't been to a dinner party in years, or a late night swim at the beach, or anything. I'm looking forward to getting some of those things back.

The only winning move is not to play.

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After reading this topic, I

After reading this topic, I was wondering if the people feel the same 7 years on?

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I find it interesting the

I find it interesting the the original poster of the topic even changes his mind a few months later and even admits he was having some bitterness about the week he was having at the time.

Diggo McDiggity
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Hi All... Wow, 7 and a 

Hi All...

Wow, 7 and a half years ago, I wrote this post...time really flies...

CatherineK asked if those who posted 7 years ago still felt the same, and I have to say, yes... definitely, and even moreso.

The fact is that online relationships/friendships require no work, no effort. They are like species of trees that grow tall, bold and beautiful, but which have very small and weak root systems. They appear to be very sturdy and very permanent above ground, until the first really big wind or rain comes along, and they topple, showing that they were never as firm and 'rooted' as they appeared to be.

When people are able to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and not invest anything other than typed words in their relationships, then those relationships were not really real to begin with. This is why I caution people who become so invested in their online relationships and guilds, to realize that if they were to leave those 'networks' that the great majority of 'friendship' would cease to exist almost immediately, and fall and crumble like those trees which were thought to be so strong and rooted.

Consider that for any friendship, the amount of time and effort you put into it determines how real and long-lasting it will be... for those efforts beyond those merely typed on the screen.

Yes, I still feel the same as I did, now that my emotions and attachments to the people I played online with for years are gone. I can see clearly now, unabated by how my words are perceived.

Online relationships and friendships that never go beyond time spent online with those persons, are, for the most part, illusions...

Ron

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fly by night
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Well said Ron,I agree with

Well said Ron,I agree with what you posted way back then and what you have posted now.

"It's all in your mind...Whatever you hold in your mind will tend to occur in your life.If you continue to believe as you have always believed,you will continue to act as you have always acted.If you continue to act as you have always acted,you will continue to get what you have always gotten.If you want different results in your life or your work,all you have to do is change your mind." Anonymous...

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I couldn't agree more with

I couldn't agree more with you, Ron.

As an addict who was easily labeled a "social gamer," I recall the friendships and bonds that were of the utmost importance to me "once upon a time."

Now those relationships are a memory and I am happy to live in reality. =)

Thanks for this wonderful reminder of the facade provided my online friends/relationships.

Love, Solei

-6 Years Free of Online Gaming-

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