A few questions

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Windworn
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A few questions

So I stumbled across this site when I found it linked on another message board.

I've spent awhile looking over it all. I even took most of the tests listed in this forum. How did I score? Fairly well I'd say. Games to me are a minor distraction at times. Much like going to the movies or going surfing. Or any other recreational activity.

Some background on me before I ask questions (I notice a large number or inanely stupid posts here, just don't want you to have the same idea of this one). I've played everquest before. Was a decent game for about four months before I grew bored with it. I play RTS and occasionally a FPS game, RPG's games aren't my type though. Online games lately hold more interest for me, the social aspect is a nice plus to any game. But I've yet to find a true quality game online.

While I don't fully agree with your sites views on some issues, I do support what your trying to do.

But my main concern is this. In your twelve step help program you refer to God mutiple times throughout all the steps.

What about the addicted gamer who is seeking help, but doesn't believe in God, or perhaps is a different religion?

They might be daunted at what you list as your steps, and try to move somewhere else in search of help. The danger with that though is they might not get the help.

Take me for example. Lets say I was addicted (And believe me this is not a subtle cry for help, just an example) and I came here.

Do I believe in God? Yes.

Do I go to church every Sunday? No.

Had I seen this website looking for help, would I have stayed? No. Let me explain.

I for one avoid hard core religious people who put God's name in front of everything like the plague. If I had an addiction those 12 steps alone would immediatly make me close my browser and scratch this off as another crazy religious site.

Now I'm not saying you are one of those kinds of stereotypes, this is just what I percieved when I first came here. Believing in God and letting people who ask you about what He's done for your life is a good thing, if they ask.

None of your tests held anything religious in them whatsoever. I think those are great.

What I'm afraid of though is the not-so-religious or agnostic or even atheist's who come here may get the wrong impression right off the bat.

Perhaps you may want to consider setting up a non-religious 12 step program, then list them both under seperate topics.

If you do have something like that here already, outstanding. If you do currently, maybe make it more prevalent on your homepage. If you don't though, why not?

I'm not here to argue with you, everyone has a right to their own opinions, and this is your board. I'm just curious as to your outlook on the matter and hoping this suggestion might help your cause.

-WW

Windworn
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?

So no answers after nearly a week?

I notice another thread where its non-stop flaming, yet you responded to those today in fact.

I hoped these suggestions would help, or at the very least I could gain an understanding about your platform and views.

Ah well.

Good luck with your site and goals.

-WW

Ch0pz
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Re: ?

You will not get a response... you wanna know why? Because these fanatics have seen you as someone they cannot brainwash.
This is just another fanatical christian website, they make a referance to god in every **** thing they say. Anyone that is that fanatical about a religion is just as likely to put an end to thier own life as a "online game addict".

These people want no parts of inteligent people, because they cant @#%$ there way around the real issues. Thats why they target teenagers.

This site and its owner makes me sick. Your whacked out views of God are bogus in every way. You talk about God like hes your neighbor, or he actually effects this world, yet if you'd read your own bible you'd see he gave us this world, and all the problems we cause. It is each mans responsibility to manage his own life. Turning to god shows you are a inferior piece of human evolution.

Im so tired of seeing these fanatic groups telling kids they cant do things for themselves. "you need god" or "you need the church". These are archaic principles that need to be forgotten. IT IS IN THE BIBLE that this is OUR world, not gods. He does not interfere. Grow a **** spine and make your own decisions.

As for the online gaming, @#%$ all of you. I lost my brother when he hung himself, he didnt do it over a game, or TV, or movies, or music. he did it because for a second in his life he let someone talk him out of being the strong person that he was. he had a tortured childhood and many problems at home. And you have the nerve to host this @#%$ website because you never taught your child the concepts of reality??? You better take a long look inside and think as to why he killed himself. I assure you it wasnt because of a **** game.

Once and for all, stop spreading your propaganda to children, or do you want to raise another crop of children with no courage, no control of thier own lives, and no devotion to being good people... Religion makes you weak, it makes you depend on others. it sad this world still bows the law of the mad man King James.

Muttin CHOP
Iksar Beastlord - Tribunal Server

Diggo McDiggity
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Re: ?

Hi Windworn, thanks for your post- Sorry there was not a direct reply, but I did revamp the tests/surveys little as a result of a few people's comments, your included.
The surveys you saw were merely put there to have 'something' until we could formally go through them and create a single, relevant and up to date screening. Even then, it will not be for the purpose of making specific diagnosis, but will just be for the 'taker' to assess his own situation and see if he needs to make some changes.

As for the 12-Steps, it's essentially the same idea there as well, and we are discussing again how and if we should modify the wording and process to make it more relevant here, but what you see of it now is essentially as it was adopted last year just so we could get started with things.

But let's face it, the 12-Steps was/is a Christian-centered program, but it has been modified and changed countless times for Jews, for athiest, for agnostics, etc., and if you can look past the religious connotation, the steps themselves are very sound and logical. It's just most are unable to do that, and frankly that's their insecurity, not any problem with Christianity or the 12-Steps.

As I've said many times before though, I am not a Christian and I do not follow the Christian faith. I only emphasize this to show the readers here that OLGA is not pushing any kind of religious agenda. But while I don't support the pushing of religion here, I also don't condone the bashing of it either. Religious discourse is fine, and so we've created some forums which center around religion and atheism, but religious-centered discussions are the exception here, not the rule.

To respond to Chopz rant, though:

I'm sorry you have this prejudiced view of what you think we are about without ever bothering to find out. You've not taken any time to really get to know us and yet you condemn us. You are clearly full of hurt and anger, and this was clear in what you shared with us about your brother. I can't imagine if my brother did that, I don't know what I'd do.

As for religion making one weak so that he depends upon others...that's what life is about, whether religion is a part of it or not. No one is completely independant, and the man who will not ever ask the help of another, is a man who will be lonely his whole life. But it takes giving your trust to another and that's hard for many people. But when you dare to do that, you will see that others will dare to trust you as well. When relationships are built upon trust, they flourish. When there is no trust, they fade away.

Ron

Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Administrator
On-Line Gamers Anonymous

Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002

lizwool
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Re: ?

Quote:because you never taught your child the concepts of reality??? Chopz, Now that gaming is such a "fad", and people who have never played these games and have no idea what they are about, or what they can do to a person need to be educated, and fast!
I think now day, your statement is very true. That is something that our children must NOW be taught.

When I was growing up, we knew what reality was. It was right before our eyes, and that was it!

Not so, today.

Hopefully, people will come here and learn, that what you see, may NOT be what you get!

This site can, and hopefully will be used to show others, that this is a new concept that people need to be aware of, and they better figure it out fast, because the effects of living in a fantasy world are here today, and it is affecting more people, than we want to know about.

Quote:Religion makes you weak, it makes you depend on others. Chopz, just like anything else, religion can make you weak, or you can use it as tool in your life, to help make you stronger.

And, CHopz, I am truly sorry about what happened to your brother. You have my sympathy.

Liz

Edited by: lizwool at: 6/15/03 7:18 am

Liz Woolley

Ch0pz
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Re: ?

when pushing mind restraining qualities onto youth, regardless of whether its religion are not, you are stopping them fromd developing properly... A child can spend his whole life watching horror movies, and the be the most kind and gentle person, but the same kid, who is not taught where reality and fantasy meet, can easily be a dangerous person. While i am only useing movies as an example, as they rarely if ever produce what we would call "bad" people, there is a relation to what we see on TV, even on the news, to what we seen in gaming.
I do agree with what you said, this is something that should be taught to children, i teach it to mine. But it simply is not happening, my rant on religion was based of i think its very disturbing that we cannot teach our youth without crippling them with OUR beliefs, lets them grow, teach what is real and unreal, and let them decide for themself...

Only when we teach our children these things, will the numbers of cases of suicide related to TV/Music/movies/games start to drop. But dont discout that some people are very mentally sick, others have chemical conditions that there mind has become to weak to control.. these things must be factored in. Some people, regardless of how hard you try, no matter what you teach them, they will in the end take thier own life. sad but true

Muttin CHOP
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Diggo McDiggity
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Re: ?

Quote:Only when we teach our children these things, will the numbers of cases of suicide related to TV/Music/movies/games start to drop. But dont discout that some people are very mentally sick, others have chemical conditions that there mind has become to weak to control.. these things must be factored in. Some people, regardless of how hard you try, no matter what you teach them, they will in the end take thier own life. sad but true Well, spoken, Chopz. All you can do is give your children the tools to cope with the world around them and hope for the best and try to be there to help them up when they fall. But once they reach adulthood and are out on their own, you can only help with what you know about.
Some people have posted that Liz should have taken a sledge hammer, bashed down her son's apartment door and destroyed his computer and all his disks if it meant saving his life. It's not that simple. That's like telling someone that the way to get a spouse to quit playing is to log on and delete his characters when he's not there or sell his PC when he's not home. All that does is create more problems.

Good post, and there I was thinking you were just another crazed Iksar from my old server :P

Ron

Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
Discussion Board Administrator
On-Line Gamers Anonymous

Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002

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