Advice much appreciated.

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Karson
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Advice much appreciated.

Hello, my name is Karson and I, myself, have identified my issues with online games (Final Fantasy IX [FFXI]). However, the girl I love, has not. I will give the 'saga', as I like to call it, in order to give better insight into what is going on and how important this girl is to me.

I have know her for near 7 years, since she was 14 (she's now 20, I am 23). We went to school together, and she was a very outgoing, and while it got her into some trouble, a party girl so to speak. Her relationships always tanked and I was always there for her. I joined the Navy out of High School and was wisked off without really so much as a goodbye. I would come back on my leave (once a year) to see how she was fairing, and I always kept my love for her in the back of my mind fearing that if revealed, we might have an experience that took away even the friendship that was there. I called it right, but never could have known to what extent.

We finally got together and the most natural terms I have ever seen in a relationship during Christmas of 2004. For a year and a half we had our share of relationship issues pertaining to MY addiction to the game (I had even gotten her into FFXI myself), and during April of 2005 I grew increasingly paranoid of the time she had spent with a particular young man on said game. I kicked her out telling her to go to her parents, thinking in the back of my mind that surely she would realize what she had done wrong. It became readily apparent that I myself had been at more fault then I gave notice too and preceded to do everything in my power to reconnect to her. It was to no avail as I found out, through online sources, that she was planning to move to Michigan with this person she had met online. She had never met him before and I was greatly concerned. She left anyway. I learned that she felt she was happy and tried my best to live up to the phrase: If you love them let them go.

I returned midway through a deployment as my time in service was up, and moved away from the city, back to the town I lived in prior to ever meeting her, figuring largely that, where there were no memories of her, I could live in semi-normal comfort. Nearing the end of October she called me, and told me that she had made a grave mistake in being with this person. Beginning of November we came together again and things were wonderful up until the beginning of January. She had began to strive, constantly, for a Linkshell (FFXI's equal to Guilds)involved in 'end-game' activities and I was greatly worried about her personally connection to people she had met on said Linkshell. In the span of two days she had Windower (a program to allow FFXI to be windowed for Ventrilo) and Ventrilo (a program that allows Teamspeak). I confronted her many a time about how out of hand I saw it, and many a time I was punished with the phrase: Why are you making such a big deal out of this? After every single argument, I was in tears and she was on the game chatting away. She went so far as to ask me if she could have an in-game boyfriend, which I promptly shot down and was immediately retorted with: It's just a game Karson, I'm with YOU in real-life. While she did not go through with this in-game boyfriend, she did make it clear that she did not understand my motives in getting upset. I decided to ask two people I knew that were husband and wife in real-life, if they would have problems if one or the other mentioned wanting an in-game other, just to be certain I wasn't just being stupid. They replied that they would, indeed, have a problem with it. When I brought it to her, she said: There's a difference, their married. I found out that if we had been married she never would have wanted a relationship in-game, but since we weren't, it was apparently, okay.

This brewed very large amounts of concern and anger from me. I am the kind that sees a serious relationship and a marriage as nothing different but a legal statement. If I am commited to a person 100%, there is no: Because we're not married... excuses. She on the other hand, felt that since she wasn't married to me, she shouldn't feel bound by anything. That night, she woke up from her napping, wouldn't acknowledge me at all, and went to the computer to chat online with several people. She then pulled me into the bedroom and told me: I don't love you. The heartbreak heard round the world....

She left, literally, the same day, and despite me asking for possible counceling she looked at me like I was insane. She told me just two days ago, that she no longer wants me in her life and she wants me to leave her and her online boyfriend alone. This particular online boyfriend is someone with a girlfriend and a son in real-life, and having known him in-game as a friend, he told me that in-game, he didn't care, but if she tried taking it outside the game, she would find herself emotionally hurt, as he would not have any part of that.

The problem here is that I love her so much and have tried everything I could think of to get her to see what she's doing to her life, all in the name of some internet fantasy. I believe she is far too personally involved in this game. She had everything when she was here with me, she was going to get her GED, she had a good job, she had, well....me. I've loved, cared, and been there for her for 7 years. I was, she even acknowledges this, her last real-life friend. She now has 0 friends outside this game and told me she doesn't WANT to meet new people.

I apologize for the length of this topic, but I feel this background is greatly needed to garner true assistance, as I feel there may be much, much more I am missing. I made many dire errors, which I see, and she is more then willing to throw them into my face as reasons for her not loving me. I have come to grips with all of her mistakes, and I am steadily grasping my own (I still occationally drop into tears).

I am at the end of my rope. My protective nature towards her is what keeps me from cutting any line she's connected too. I have not talked to her for 2 days and have since temporarily quit FFXI in my own right as it just is not fun being on the same game as her, knowing what she's doing. Everyone else has abandoned the girl, and she herself has let it happen. I just cannot bring myself to abandon her. I want to be there when she turns around and sees it all for what it is. She needs off this game, horribly so, even if she doesn't get back together with me. Please, any help and assistance is much, and greatly, appreciated.

Danni
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Karson,

I am so sorry for all your pain.

Coming here and sharing your story was a great first step.

I don't have much time now, but I wanted you to know that we are here and that we care.

Here are a few things that stand out to me:

1) she is in very deep, and doesn't seem to recognize it
2) she is not ready to quit
3) you are suffering, and need to have a way to think about all this
4) you do not have a good perspective on what is reasonable, right, fair, good, etc -- so you haven't related well with her, and you don't know what to do now.

There is good news and bad news, as I see it.

The bad news is that you cannot control her or her behavior/addiction. She is going to go on destroying herself until she is ready to stop.

You are right to let her go, for having let her go in the past. You cannot save her. She has to feel enough pain before she will quit. You can however, tell her that there is help for her here on these boards, or in the rooms of AA, if she ever needs or wants it.

The good news is that you CAN control your own behavior and your reaction to her and her addiction.

The best news is that, by working the 12 steps, you will improve your ability to properly percieve situations, and you will improve in your ability to control your own reaction to her addiction/addictive behavior.

My suggestion is that you keep coming back to these boards.

The only person you can help right now is you. If you help yourself, you may be able to help her - or at least not cause any damage.

What do you think?

Danni

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Makes alot of sense. I've attributed her to a funny little line to keep my spirits up. She's like a fortune cookie. Tastes great but I'll be d--ned if I understand the inside >.> I realize that the only way to help her is to let her fall, but that brings out the side that wants to rush to her aid every 100th of a second. I do blame myself for never really letting her fall on ANY mistake she's made, so she's never really learned the hardway with anything, other then 'Karson will save me'. She keeps bringing up the mistakes I made, no doubt to tell herself what she's doing is right, and I'm also afraid that she won't listen when I point her to these boards. What is an effective way to do that?

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Karson, I have read your story and I understand.

I also think Danni is right in everything she said.

Try to keep a light casual contact to your old love so WHEN she is ready to quit, you will be there.

Hold this in your heart as a lantern of hope.

Wish you well

Maxim

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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Should I mention or send this website link to her? Maybe it would spark a clue as to just how much I care about her. I'm grasping at straws lol, I know.

Xandtar
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

It won't hurt, and it might help. I advise doing so.

Good luck to you.

Leveling in Real Life

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Well, I sent her a message via FFXI. So here's to hoping. Really don't think it can get much worse you know? Though I really fear it can...

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Quote:I'm grasping at straws lol, I know.

well, there is the saying "the straw that broke the camels back"

I wonder if an addiction can have long legs, be furry and have a big mount of fat on the back... maybe then that piece of straw is enough

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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

One can only hope. Well seconds after I sent the message containing the site addresses, she went offline. So...who knows anymore... On a personal note, I'm hanging in. Best I can really. Thoughts of her are assaulting my brain left and right. It's at the most unpredicitable moments. I mean, I walked past a girl that JUST so happened to be wearing the SAME perfume she used....that was a war in itself. I realize it's going to take time, but when I look forward...it looks so, so bleak.

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Karson, I am sick from love - physically in the meaning of feeling extreme sadness - myself, yo I can understand it. Before OLGAnon I would have gone back to gaming at once! as I have been feeling like this for severa days now.

Hang in there, life is a tough ride sometimes, but even the worst rollercoaster finally comes back to itA's safe ending.

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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.

Edited by: calm force at: 2/22/06 15:21

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Ironic that I hate real rollercoasters too >.> Yes, as the military taught me, Adapt and Overcome. I'm not about to be brought down by this, but my Lord, I feel alot like I'd have rather been shot then told she no longer wants me in her life. I sent the message to her, so once again, here's hoping.

Danni
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Hi Karson

Hope you are hanging in there

Glad you sent her the link

Hang in there

Danni

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

I got no reply at all. So I see one of two things: she didn't even bother, or she did, and didn't even bother ; ;

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

sometimes it is like this

the seeds we plant in the spring, often take an unbearably long time to bloom ... only in the autumn, when spring frost and summer heat is gone do they rear their heads

patience is a virtue, with plants as with people

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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Yes, it's always taught me that things come back around lol. I know that she'll realize her mistake in telling me to take no part in her life. A friend once told me: You think she doesn't wake up at 3 A.M. in the morning and wonder what your doing? I'm sure she does.
It's just sad that it ever came to all this. I still remember every moment with her since I've known her when she was 14. It's just hard to think it all got here, you know? I kinda just want to grab her and run from everyone and everything lol. Reset it ALL. Ah well, nothing to do but wait, and that....is so hard to do

Edited by: Karson at: 2/24/06 3:44

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

I just looked at her Yahoo Profile while skimming through the net and it says she's married, last update was 25th this month....good lord I think I'm going to be sick...there's no way I'm going to be able to sleep.

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

sorry to hear this

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lizwool
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Karson,

Don't believe everything you read.

Liz

Liz Woolley

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Such is the truth. I learned from an online friend that she put it up because she was annoyed with all the random guys sending her messages. Funny....she never complains about the guys on FFXI doing that (the phone bill blew up just before she left, due to her calling all her online friends for hours). It feels I'm hanging on by a wire... I'm angry, upset, sad, lonely, a great number of things. Weather here seems to match it too >.>

I just can't seem to get my mind off any of it. I want to call her and just let loose with all the things she's done because I can't understand how someone can be so blind. I know it won't help, which is why I haven't. It's one of the worst feelings in the world to know that the girl you love more then anything doesn't have so much as a fleeting thought of you.

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Quote:It's one of the worst feelings in the world to know that the girl you love more then anything doesn't have so much as a fleeting thought of you.

Yes, though there are many kinds of poison. The girlfriend that I was with for 4 years, does not want to talk to me because I hurt her so bad (mentally). The girl I am in love with right now, loves me too, but circumstances forbid it. Kinda like Romeo and Julia a bit.

DonA't know why love has been so hard with me lately *sigh*

Maybe there is something I need to learn (I am certain there is)

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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

I type this while tears pour down like the rain outside my window. It seems even the environment has some knowledge as to what I'm going through.

I learned not a hour or two ago that she is moving to New York, to be with, yet another, online person. Using all the same words she using when she moved to the kid in Michigan. I like him, he's a good person, I won't change my mind, I don't want to change, and I don't care. She told me about how she doesn't love me, and how she never will. All the same words and phrases, with the same cold and merciless tone. She told me about how I was always in her way, and that I always have a problem with whatever it is she wants to do, no matter what it is.

I don't know what to do. I've screamed that phrase to the air countless times in the past 30 minutes. The pain, the heartache, the knowledge that she told me: I'm heartless and cold because it's the only thing that gets it through to you. All of these things are so unbearable. I don't know how 7 years of caring, love, and friendship have become this. This mass of unrecognizable hatred and merciless heart-wrenching. I asked her: You've taken everything from me, Do you want the REST of my heart? She said: no.

I do not understand how kind actions, loving words, and the devoted care I have given her for 7 years could be thrown back at me as knives, daggers, and shrapnel into my heart. I love this girl. I love her with everything I have. I can't find anything to stand on, or a bright light. I don't know what to do, where to go, or even who to turn to. I type this only because I am alone and I have nothing else to convey my thoughts with.

I have stuck it all out this far. Never giving up, no matter how much force or effort she put behind whatever words she used to break me away. It always paid off in the end as she saw what she was doing and would stop. I do not want to leave her side, abandon her, like everyone else has. I love her too much to be like those that don't care.

I look back on it all and I see so many chances to have altered this heading. I should have stuck with her offer to quit the game, together. I should have, What if I, If I had only, What would have happened if, and D@mnit, why didn't I. These are all precursors to the thoughts that assault my memory, mind, and heart. So many paths, so many failed choices. I swear now that if a third chance were to occur, I would make sure the game is an immediate execusion. For both.

However, I am struck often by the thought of: What is the use? My kindness, love, and caring has been wasted for 7 years. It has gotten me nothing but heartache and pain. Why bother, why try, why care? I feel forgotten. Forsaken, like someone that just isn't suppose to come to the surface, no matter how hard he tries. I feel cursed that I am forever tied to the girl that will never cease crushing my heart. I will not lie. Death has come to mind many a time in just a short span. All of which dismissed because following through, would only hurt my family, of whom really, and truly, do care about me. I have, however, often seen that as being the only means with which to make her see just how bad she really is. In the end I am forced with the reality of the situation. I love a girl that ruins me, and I cannot stop.

I am burdened greatly with my ideals. If you love someone, do you not try everything with which to help that person? Do you not go out of your way to assist and care for them? All I know, is that I have, and it has lead me to where I stand now. Alone, heartbroken, and betrayed. I don't want to be cold and heartless, and while I know I am clearly capable of being so, I don't want to think that it is the only option I have left to keep from sinking into the ocean that is being taken for granted.

I am reminded by many that you can be TOO nice, and that I am as such. Am I fated to be so caring and so loving that I am only betrayed by the many that come to me seeking 'aid'? Am I fated to die knowing that all I have ever done is reap pain and suffering from all the care and love I have sown? I do not want to think that all I will get from caring and loving is heartache and sorrow. My history has proven constantly that I receive such treatment for all I have done.

I don't know what to do. I have very little motivation, will, or surge to keep me afloat and I want nothing more then to just drop it all and give up. Give up like everyone else has given up.

lizwool
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Dear, dear Karson,

I understand what you are going through. I have been there. I met this man, and we were perfect together. His response is "Oh, Are We?" He knows little to nothing about a good relationship (I do because I have been in so many bad ones). So anyway, now this one is turning ugly.

You might want to read about co-dependancy - here is a start - p198.ezboard.com/folgafrm33.showMessage?topicID=22.topic

We can care for others Karson, but we do not throw our own lives away for them. We cannot make someone else love us, no matter how hard we try.

I really have found that "not appearing to care for the person" (indifference) usually will bring a reaction from them. The more you say you want them, and you have to have them, the faster they run. So pulling up, and you leaving them go - giving her the time she needs - well, maybe it will help, and maybe it won't. At least you can start caring and creating a new life for yourself - with or without her.

I hope you keep coming and sharing here, Karson. We will love you, until you can love yourself!

Liz

Edited by: lizwool at: 2/27/06 23:05

Liz Woolley

shiva
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Quote:I am burdened greatly with my ideals. If you love someone, do you not try everything with which to help that person? Do you not go out of your way to assist and care for them?

Liz has written it better than I could ... the one person you need to love right now is love.

You know, sometimes it is like this ... it might help you to remember or even to read the "little prince" by Saint Exupery. His relationship and care for his rose reminds me so much of our struggles sometimes.

It is never futile Karson, I can understand you ... there was an evening when I had driven some 350 kilometers in some 2,5 hours, through pouring rain. The friend who was with me swore never to sit in the same car with me. I did this to talk to her that day, I stood on my knees and begged her forgiveness. And I only got a sound of indifference, and "I am tired, could you please go now".

Sometimes it turns out this way. And yes, sometimes people look for abusive relationships, and not for good ones. Often, because they have not learned it in any other way, so they seek that, which is familiar to them, instead of plunging into the depths of a satisfying, but to them frightening "real" relationship.

Just some thoughts. And yes, we are here for you, and my heart feels for you.

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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.

Karson
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Today I took upon myself the courage to end her character's existance. I went in, changed her password, stripped her character of all items, equipment, etc., and deleted it, and her mule (extra character used to store items). While I see this as a drastic measure, I see it as a measure that may very well open her eyes (in time) to what I have told her. That she is addicted to this game.

This was not a decision born out of angry, jealousy, or hatred, but an action born out of an intense want to help this girl. It is literally, the last thing I could possibly do. She hates me now and she will for a good amount of time, but when she realizes that she has let the game control her life, I only pray that she thanks me or at the least understands what I did.

Many people on the game told me I was wrong in doing what I did. Most people that are addicted to said game would naturally see my action as wrong. Do not misjudge thinking this action was done quick or without hesitation. I put much thought into it, and consulted many before coming resorting to such an action.

I know she is seething with anger, has probably cried, and wishes the worst of the worst upon me, but that does nothing but prove my statement of her addiction. As she has told me countless times- It is just a game. She should take her own words to heart.

I love this girl with all my heart and I believe that a true friend is one that does not hesitate to call your bluff when they know you are wrong. Friends don't tell their friends- Do whatever you want. knowing that what they're doing is wrong. My mother said that this is a perfect example of 'Tough Love'.

I feel justified in what I did, though I do feel guilty about taking such a drastic approach. However, what does one do when diplomacy fails? The rule 'Treat others as you wish to be treated' does work both ways. I'm not doing anything out of spite. I'm doing it because she needs to wake up from this fantasy world she's made her everything, and the only action I saw left was to tear it out from under her.

lizwool
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Re: Advice much appreciated.

Wow, Karson. You are brave!

Keep us posted on what happens.

If it works, maybe I can suggest that to other family members, who want their loved one back.

Liz

Liz Woolley

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