Doubts etc

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NZ zebra
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Doubts etc

This must be a common phenomenon but I'm not sure if it's been discussed already somewhere so I thought I'd raise the issue.
Well, I obviously joined up here because someone I care about is adicted. Or so I think. And my main goal is of course that he should stop playing since it is hurting our relationship - badly.

It's just that somehow it's so much easier when he's playing full-on-as-much-as-possible, like he has done before. Not because I like it (I hate it!) but because then I am at least sure what's going on. It's easy: he plays like CRAZY, is completely rude to me when I interrupt and I am convinced that this is not normal.

The trouble is that he's a bit of a binger. He does stop from time to time, usually after we had a big discussion about it and I manage to make him understand how bad I feel about things. So first all is well. He doesn't play at all, for days or weeks. Then one day he causally mentions that he'll 'just have quick flutter at the computer' and my alarm bells ring. At the same time I feel stupid and guilty for being so controlling (although I don;'t actually say anything or sulk about it). He's just playing for 1 hour or so, I like my independence and surely this doesn't have to spin out of control. But it does. Little by little, it ALWYAS ends in disaster where I really have no contact with him at all for days. And then I know. Again. Misery but at the same time there is no doubt in my mind what this is all about.

But the part leading up to the messy end is such a weird gray zone and I keep questioning myself. Is it him being addicted or is it me being controlling?

And today is such a day where I just don't know. I even feel like I was an idiot for joining up here. I guess I swing from denial to clarity just as much as my (probably) addicted man.

Any thoughts on this?

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Not all alcoholics drink

Not all alcoholics drink every day, either, I have known many bingers during my medium-length lifespan. Not all gamblers gamble every day either, but when these people do boy can they binge. Everyone's different. Both addicts, and those who love them. You're not an idiot for being here in any way. You care, and that means a lot.

Leveling in Real Life

BigH501
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The addict in him will play

The addict in him will play and manipulate the situation giving what he feels he needs to maintain the status quo. So when you hit a breaking point and he senses that, he backs off. As soon as the addict in him senses things are "calm" again, it starts testing to see how much it can get away with which then spirals back out of control. . I had a similiar cycle go on with my Ex-wife for YEARS. I never really "got" it until it was too late :( . HE has to recognize he has a problem, and then HE has to want to fix it... . :|

" ... don't question it just go" "... where the body goes the mind will follow"
.
Borrowed from "Desire to Stop"

NZ zebra
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You are both right, of

You are both right, of course. And I don't think he'll get it. We'll keep resurfacing to the ok level and I'll start questioning myself until he goes on a binge again and I know someting is just not right. Unless I try something else. Any hints are welcome. I showed him this site and he pretty much just laughed at me. He may sometimes think that he has a problem and sort of express a wish to stop playing. He can say things like, 'it's just a waste of time, that game', or, 'I think I'm hooked on the adrenalin rush'. Then, the next day, he refuses to even remember that he said as much though and makes it clear that he thinks I'm the one with the problem. Hmm. The addicts in him is very good at mind games, I think.

mingo
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From what I understand NZ

From what I understand NZ zebra you hold all the cards as far as the finances are concerned.. In my situation that was the position I was in also, so from my perspective it made my approach a very difficult one indeed. While I didnaEU(tm)t want to be completely controlling and overbearing that is where we ended up and looking back it was the only thing that worked after years of trying other strategies.. Eventually, I just pulled the plug literally. It came down to turning off the electricity in the house thataEU(tm)s how desperate I was to end this nightmare one way or another.. If you have control over the internet access and donaEU(tm)t need it at home yourself, cut it off and let the chips fall where they may.. Trying to understand addictive behavior is all well and good but sometimes there is no fixing the addict. Sometimes what needs to be fixed is our codependency issues in relation to the addict.. Sometimes it is us who need fixaEU(tm)n ..

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Thanks for your response

Thanks for your response Mingo. I am painfully aware of the codependency issues here. I THINK I'm past all that but the fact remains; we've got two little ones and he's a wonderful dad to them and he stays at home to look after them while I get to go away and have my career. And he doesn't play when he's alone with them - I think. So it's a practical arrangement as well as a relationship and I don't think it would benefit the kids if I packed my bags and left. Anyway. I wouldn't hesitate to have internet cut off if it was up to me but I'm just the one who pays the bills, the phone/internet/electricity is in his name and I can't cancel anything unless I call up and pretend to BE him (and then he'd just call them back and sort it out in no time). I have thought about not paying the bills so that we would be cut off by default. But then he'd just pay himself. He's not broke; in fact he actually has a bit of money tucked away, it's just our arrangement that I pay the running costs of our lives since I work and he doesn't.

gsingjane
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NZB, I understand your

NZB, I understand your frustration and, in a way, your perplexity at your inability to get what you may consider to be helpful advice, or even clear answers, on this site. This, I think, is at least partially because, as you say, you are in something of a gray area here. Gaming addictions are weird that way anyhow: people typically associate addiction with smashing up cars, making a pass at the boss' s wife, stealing car radios to raise $200/day, all kinds of dramatic and noteworthy behavior. Compulsive gaming isn't like that. Mostly what seems to happen, except in certain rare cases, is that the person just, over time, vanishes into the screen. Like the Cheshire Cat, except there isn't even a smile left behind. But vanishing (especially when it happens in fits and starts, as with your husband) isn't very dramatic; your husband is still able to function in other areas, so nobody is going to rush around thinking that it's a crisis, that he's fading away. What seems clear from your posts is that your husband's gaming is causing deep problems between you. Does this mean by definition he's an addict? No. He could be a full-on addict and your marriage could still be okay; he could not be an addict at all and your marriage could still be in trouble. It may be that his gaming is a symptom of marital issues and not the source. It's impossible, of course, to know from the outside. Even as much as sometimes we are stymied to contribute in a helpful way regarding gaming issues, that goes double as to marital ones. One thing that leaps out at me, and this is based on my own experience and has nothing to do with gaming, is that you mentioned that you are the breadwinner and your husband is a stay at home dad. Many men are okay with that these days, but some really aren't. Some men assert their masculinity or individuality in ways we'd rather not see... ways that don't seem particularly constructive. It may be, and again I'm just playing amateur shrink here, that your husband is "shooting 'em up" on screen because he resents, on some level, having to be the nurturing parent. Because on the face of it, you are right, it does seem awfully childish and immature for an adult male to be so consumed with a kid's game. A man can tell you, and actually even believe, that he's okay with not working, but deep down inside, he's angry and feels confused and somehow less. And it could be manifesting itself in his gaming, particularly the aggressive kind that you say he enjoys so much. It might also be, and you won't want to hear this, either, that you yourself are not really okay with your current arrangement. Control is a major, major issue in an awful lot of relationships these days - maybe all of them, for that matter - and while I'm not suggesting that's what's going on, your feelings about what he's doing may be a bit colored by your own perception of his current role and status. Believe me, I have no agenda or ax to grind here, I truly believe that people work out whatever they work out, and more power to them (as long as the kids don't get hurt) but I am just trying to throw up a few things for you to look at, or to look at in a different way. Take care, Jane in CT

mingo
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I work out of town most of

I work out of town most of the time so with my situation I really had no idea that my wife was spending that much time online playing games until I really started looking into it.. I was completely shocked at the countless hours she spent logged into the game and creating web sites devoted to the game.. I went so far as to install a key catcher data logger and was able to read much of her input, which was eye opening as to what she was thinking and feeling at the time.. It seems to me that she was making life decisions based on what game partners suggested.. Frightening to think that others had that much influence on her while she wouldnaEU(tm)t listen to me at all.. Perhaps you can call your internet access company and get a complete log of activity on the account.. If itaEU(tm)s in your husbands name and he truly is only playing on a schedule, he should have no problem providing that information for you.. On the other hand if you want to find out surreptitiously there are mechanisms whereby you can do that for very little cost.. The key catcher I installed on our machine cost me less than 100 dollars for instance, or at the very least have him add you to the account so you can monitor it, after all youaEU(tm)re paying for it.. It wouldnaEU(tm)t surprise me if you found that he is playing much more than has been suggested.. There were several days when my wife was logged into the game more than 18 hours at a time, the absolute waste of time and resources shook me up more than any of the content I was able to read, most of which seemed to me like 8th grade school kid crush stuff amongst the characters. Nevertheless, I could see the conversations she was having with the other characters put into action in our real life, thataEU(tm)s where it started getting a little scary for me.. This might seem a little cruel, however, if you are interested to know how aEUoeaddictedaEU to the game he truly is try a little experiment.. For instance one evening I glued down a couple of keys on the keyboard to see if that would end the game play session for the night, not only did it not end the session but it almost drove my wife completely mad when I wouldnaEU(tm)t allow her to take the keyboard from my machine so she could play.. I suggested that we have a nice quiet evening alone and IaEU(tm)d get her a new keyboard the next day. You would have thought that the fate of the world depended on her playing the game at that very instant.. I knew then WE had a serious problem..

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gsingjane wrote: What seems
gsingjane wrote:

What seems clear from your posts is that your husband's gaming is causing deep problems between you. Does this mean by definition he's an addict? No. He could be a full-on addict and your marriage could still be okay; he could not be an addict at all and your marriage could still be in trouble. It may be that his gaming is a symptom of marital issues and not the source. It's impossible, of course, to know from the outside. Even as much as sometimes we are stymied to contribute in a helpful way regarding gaming issues, that goes double as to marital ones.

Thanks Jane, you certainly raised a few issues in your response. As for the gaming being a symptom of our problems rather than the cause, it's possible that it is these days but he was playing this game long before we met so it did not start out that way. In fact, his friends had already stopped coming around because he wouldn't stop playing although he had visitors and people were making jokes about how surprising it was that he actually managed to find a girlfriend when he spent all his time by his computer. Of course, he might still not be an addict; he could just prefer to play this game to seeing his friends when they come over. And not actually mind that people don't bother coming over any more. It just seems unlikely to me. But, as you say, there's nothing of the drunken hitting on the boss' wife or smashing windows so it feels like a grey area just the same.

gsingjane wrote:

One thing that leaps out at me, and this is based on my own experience and has nothing to do with gaming, is that you mentioned that you are the breadwinner and your husband is a stay at home dad. Many men are okay with that these days, but some really aren't. Some men assert their masculinity or individuality in ways we'd rather not see... ways that don't seem particularly constructive. It may be, and again I'm just playing amateur shrink here, that your husband is "shooting 'em up" on screen because he resents, on some level, having to be the nurturing parent. Because on the face of it, you are right, it does seem awfully childish and immature for an adult male to be so consumed with a kid's game. A man can tell you, and actually even believe, that he's okay with not working, but deep down inside, he's angry and feels confused and somehow less. And it could be manifesting itself in his gaming, particularly the aggressive kind that you say he enjoys so much..

Hmmmm, when I got pregnant he was the one who offered to stay home with the kids. Of course he might regret that now and somehow 'feel less' and channel his aggressions about this through killing people in the game. Still, he played just as much back when he was working, before we met.

gsingjane wrote:

It might also be, and you won't want to hear this, either, that you yourself are not really okay with your current arrangement. Control is a major, major issue in an awful lot of relationships these days - maybe all of them, for that matter - and while I'm not suggesting that's what's going on, your feelings about what he's doing may be a bit colored by your own perception of his current role and status.

Again, hmmm. I try to keep an open mind to your suggestions as I really do appreciate that you took time to think about our situation and this would be a classical thing, I suppose. But I'm not really following you. In what way do you mean that I might not be ok with our current arrangement? I can without hesitation say that I am thrilled to bits that I get to pursuit my career while our kids are being looked after by someone who loves them just as much as I do. Actually, I am one of the few people I know who likes her job so much that aEU~MondayaEU(tm) has a nice ring to it. There is really no resentment there at all, from my side. The control thing is more the thing I'm worried about myself. In my mind that's not entirely clear, since I do not know for a fact and beyond all reasonable doubt and every day that he is actually addicted. What if he just likes it (a LOT) and I am the one who has the problem. And I cause problems for us by insisting that he give up the one thing he really likes. And that's why I started this post. Because I just don't know. Speaking against me being a control freak is that I don't try to control any other aspect of his life. I am not jealous or sulk if he wants to go down to the pub or go out fishing by himself for a day. I'm really not very needy and I do like my alone time too. To break it down, what really bugs me is when we made 'a date' and he chooses to break it because he decided to have another hour or two or three on the computer. Bear with me while I explain, and perhaps you could shed some light on whataEU(tm)s going on here. It usually starts when I come home from work with him saying that he's going to have 'a quick game'. Now, I have first-hand experience of being isolated with young kids all day and understand that he needs to do something completely different and just have a break at the end of a very long day. And he's a grown man and can decide for himself how he wants to relax. I also know from experience though, that ' a quick game' does not have an end and will go on all night, in which case we don't get to spend any time at all together, not even to have friendly chat about what the kids have been doing during the day. So I probably get a bit controlling here in the sense that I try to create a balance. On an average day there's usually about 3 hours left from when I get home to when I need to sleep and so I will usually try to put some sort of time limit on the game so that we get to see each other for at least one hour. He then reassures me that he will be done WELL before that and scurries off to the computer. That's all fine - and in the rare event that he actually does come off the computer so that we get to see each other I'm really ok with that. The problem is that things seem to change once he's started playing and he just won't stop. For two hours or so, I busy myself with putting the kids to bed and then I read or play some guitar or do some work on my laptop. But by the end of the two hours, I usually go over to the computer and point out that he said he'd stop at about this time. 'Oh, I'll just finish this map', is the typical response. OK, I try not to be the nagging wife but I ask how long he estimates that's going to be and mention that I have to go to sleep in about an hour. 'Shouldn't be more than 20 min tops', he'll say and carry on playing. After 20 minutes I return, like a bad conscience, and I'll glance at the score board. 'Hey, it seems like you started another map', I'll say, this time with some hostility in my voice. 'Ah, yeah, I just felt like it. So what? Why don't just go to bed?', he'll say. 'But...', I'll say, 'I wanted to see you before I went to bed. You said you'd stopped well before now..." By then an angry cloud usually descends on me and it all just feels so pointless. I freely admit that I'll then sometimes go against my better judgement and pick a fight on the spot, which will of course only serve as the perfect excuse for him to carry on playing ALL night. Of course I see how I can be viewed to contribute to the cycle. At the same time, it would take an almost superhuman effort for me not to be annoyed and at some stage point this out to him, or am I missing something here?

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Good morning again.... I

Good morning again.... I know you can see that all I, or really anybody here, can do is throw out ideas. Whether they resonate with you is something else. To explain about the "is it okay with you?" comment - what I meant was that, sometimes, deep inside, we have feelings that we don't even consciously know we have. It may be that because of the way you were raised, or what you saw or heard growing up, that you yourself are not really okay with your husband's being the SAHF. Call it internalized sexism, call it whatever you like, but the fact remains that most of us did not grow up with this model, and some of us might still feel that this is not the ideal arrangement, or that a man who makes this choice is somehow less masculine or manly than a full-time breadwinner. I'm not saying it's right to feel this way, in fact the more egalitarian, the better, so far as I am concerned, but these deep-set feelings might surface in a relationship and drive other attitudes and reactions. But, as you say, maybe not. I suggest, you decide. It would seem to me, objectively speaking, that the evening situation you described above would feel neglectful and hurtful to anyone. If, the moment you walked in the door, your husband ran out to the gym, or to the bar, and didn't come back until you were asleep... and did this 5 nights a week... and all day on the weekend... you'd begin to wonder whether he was trying to tell you something. It would, at least, generate some fairly searching questions concerning whether he even wanted to spend time with you, enjoyed your company, or liked having you around. I understand that you also like your "alone time" but this seems to transcend that, by an order of magnitude. FWIW, I don't think it's being a "control freak" to want to spend an hour a night with one's spouse, and I don't think most people would disagree with me. There is no bright line at which one can say, "x" number of hours per week means addicted gaming and is unacceptable in a marriage or a life. It is more of a functional question, is the person's gaming causing internal and/or external problems. However, from what you describe, your husband's level of gameplay (given the existence of his family) seems to be, at the very least, excessive. BTW, just because he was a gamer when you met him, does not mean that you signed up for a lifetime of being neglected for playing. Adults understand that as their lives change, and their circumstances do, they might not get to do everything they want anymore, at least not to the extent they did when they were young adults or teens. How many activities or indulgences did you give up when you had your children? Our obligations to others wax and wane as our lives go on - with young kids in the home, a developing career, maybe increased community involvement - our ability to "play" diminishes for a while, no matter how we define "play." It would seem to me that at this juncture you need to start thinking about whether you want to stay in this relationship and, if so, under what conditions. Sometimes on this board we've seen that a gaming spouse or partner refuses to modify behavior, essentially as a passive/aggressive way to actually end the relationship. It's too scary to actually confront the partner, so the gamer retreats further and further into the game, as a way of "leaving without leaving." In the "bar or gym" example above, you'd have figured out long before this that something wasn't right. You may want to have a heart to heart talk with your husband and simply ask him whether he wants out. I'm not suggesting, at all, that you threaten anything, but it might really be helpful to you to at least know his intentions vis a vis your marriage. His current behavior indicates that, unless something changes radically, he's going to put gaming first. If he re-affirms that to you, then the next step is really up to you, whether that's the future you'd like to see ofr yourself, or whether you might like to try for something a little better. Jane in CT

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Dear Jane, I am sorry if I

Dear Jane, I am sorry if I came across as defensive in my response. I think I probably did. I just thought a lot about all of this and couldn't help but feeling a bit frustrated about some of the things that you suggested, even if you obviously meant only to suggest and wasn't acually implying. And I do not want to turn this post into a discussion on whether or not I secretly feel akward about my man being at home with the kids so I'll drop that for now. Still, I can't help myself from pointing out that I am originally from Sweden, where this type of arrangement is not that uncommon and I just don't think that I secretly resent my man one little bit for doing this. I do probably think of him as less of a man - and more of a child - for choosing to spend hour after hour shooting people in that stupid game though. And that's obviously not very respectful of me and probably affects the way I treat him in other respects too. I'm happy about your input on the control issue here. It's such a delicate balance I find, and I sometimes hear a patronizing tone in my voice when we try to talk about the game issue and I don't like it one bit. If I were to become manipulative and controlling though, I would like it even less. And in a way, the issue is perhaps not about whether or not he is actually addicted to the game but how we can all become a happier family. I have been trying to understand it from an addiction point of view but perhaps I should be more open to the possibility that there are other reasons for his playing too. It bugs me that I'm trying so hard to understand and make things better while he mainly shrugs and keeps on playing. Perhaps I need to let go of the responsibility here and let him assume some of it. Actually, last night when he mentioned that he was going to have a 'quick game' I told him that I had told you guys about how it usually goes. He then said, 'ok, I'll play for a bit and I'll stop at 9'. And I asked, 'So, at 9 when I come to let you know it's already 9 o' clock, what happens then?' 'I'll just turn it off', he said. And he actually did. Although he had just started a new game, he just turned it off. If this were to become how things are done from now on, I can totally live with that.

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Hi NZ, Setting limits on

Hi NZ, Setting limits on video play is indeed fine and right to do. If he continues to live up to those limits, and is engaged with you and other non-video aspects of his life, then there is no problem. There is nothing inherently wrong with video games, as long as one can keep them in perspective. The problem, of course, is that addicts loose that perspective. I sincerely wish that he continues to do the responsible thing. You are right in that often people use video games as a substitute for something else missing in their lives. However, you will NOT be able to figure out what that is for him. Only he has the answer to that, and he probably doesn't even know. He probably has a sense, but, if he's like me, it may take therapy before even he is exactly aware of what that missing thing is. You sound like a very strong woman. Hang in there. I hope that he awakens from his video fog soon.

Addicted to SL

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Hi sladdiction, We've had

Hi sladdiction, We've had another good night when he just turned it off when he said he would. At 9:15, when he said he'd finish, I went up to the computer and pointed out it was 9:15. 'OK, watch me die" he said and let someone kill him mid-game and then just switched it off and left the computer. Dare I hope we're out of the woods? I do, and optimists live longer, happier lives.

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“The pessimist complains

aEUoeThe pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.aEUaEU"William Arthur Ward sorry couldn't resist..

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How does a gaming addict

How does a gaming addict ever recognize that they have a problem. My husband is in complete denial that he has a problem. He's been playing the game for about 5 years and over the past 6 months, it is truly out of control. he goes in early to work to get some time playing, he comes home from work to quickly check who's going to be on at night and then he plays from 9pm until 1:30 am. i have been confronting him on this and it just makes him angry. he's 45 years old has a wife, children, animals, nice home, good job, but this is the love of his life. He told me it's the only place he can relax for 2 hours a night (yet he doesn't even see that it's actually 4 1/2 hours.) Things are coming to a head about my husband's game in our house and I have been quite vocal about how much i hate it. He finally turned to me and said he wants a divorce. We have been together for 26 years and will be married for 20 this year (if we make it) Yesterday he couldn't stand the sound of my voice and got up to try to leave. I wouldn't let him walk out on us (he did that the previous weekend). I told him he had to be a man and a father and that we have to work this out without running away. We need to get help. he then started smashing in a door with his fist. I suppose that was much better than my face but- I called the police becasue i didn't feel safe. Just so you know, before jan '09 this was a very meak and mild person. I am now afraid of him. I have to call the court tomorrow to see what happened today when he was there. He got some sort of restraining order but I have to find out the particulars on it. These words - restraining order, hitting, police, smashing - were never part of our vocab. before tonight. This seems like my worst nightmares have come to life. And he told me the hate he had for me 2 days ago can't even come close to the hate he has now for me. So back to my original question. When and how will he realize he has a problem?

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NZ, I hope the trend

NZ, I hope the trend continues. My thoughts are with you both :-) There was a good quote on here somewhere about filling your real life up with rewarding things so that the gaming hours slowly fade away. I hope both of you can take the extra time gained by him not playing to enrich your life as a couple. Dolly, I'm so sorry to hear about what you are going through. It is truly tragic. All the things you mention point to common signs of a horrible addiction. You need, of course, to think of the children first, I know I don't have to tell you that, but sometimes people get so wrapped up in trying to "save" the spouse that they let their guard down when it comes to the kids. You also, need to think of yourself. There are a lot of people on this site who have gone through what you are going through. They will provide some great support.. Every addict has his/her own personal low that they have to reach before they realize they have a problem. Some, unfortunately, never do. However, you can't make them realize that. They have to come to that conclusion on their own. They have to want to change. It sounds a bit late for this, but, if you guys are even speaking you can show him this site and let him read the stories on here. Sometimes that makes a spark. I wish you the best of luck. My heart really goes out to you and your family. People can and will lend support on here.

Addicted to SL

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