Help needed breaking the news to my addict wife

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anonnymouse
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Help needed breaking the news to my addict wife

Hi guys and gals

I have been hanging around here for a while but this is the first time I have decided to commit to writing anything. I have tried before but after getting to page 5 or 6 realized I don't really know what I want to say.

My wife is a functional addict. That is really what I want to say. It took me the longest time to see. A lot of the posts I read here seemed to show people unable to function in life and she is anything but that person.

It has been over 3 years now I think since I introduced her to Evony and she has never looked back. I got bored after about 2 months when it got to be hard work and I had this 'wrong' feeling about it. She didn't.

Unfortunately I work 8 till 6 so I didn't see it for a long while. It crept in gradually and like the frog in the pan I adapted and saw no problem. It was over a year before I was unhappy enough about it to say something, at the end of the christmas period when she had been largely absent and pretty much ignored me and the kids the whole time.

It didn't go well. She apologised profusely, cut down for a while then built up again bit by bit. It made no real difference in the end. I thought I wasn't comunicating my feelings very well and after a few months tried again.

This became the pattern for a long time but I never got the message across the way I wanted. In the end she would burst into tears, then become hyper-deffensive then extremely aggressive then end the discussion before I had really had chance to put across what I wanted to say. I always tried to talk, not shout or argue but I don't think it made much difference.

It was doing so much damage and getting us nowhere so I stopped for a long while talking about it at all and just became depressed instead.

I found this site and began to read one night. I read the page 'is OLGA for you' and tried to figure out what the answers might be but was undecided. But at the same time not comforted.

I went into her e-mail account, something I wouldn't normally do but didn't consider that terrible. In it I found a saved mail for a receipt of payment to her game server. "But evony is a free game!" I thought. I logged in to paypal which took some figuring out as I have nothing at all to do with the accounts.

What I saw blew me away. I had known her to spend PS10 or so on the game in the past when starting a new server (rare occurence) but here before me was nearly PS200 in one month! My head spun and I started to breathe heavy, just thinking about it is making my heart race. I had a full blown panic attack. I started hyperventilating, my hands locked onto the desk edge and I couldn't slow my racing heart or my faster and faster breathing.

I shouted for my wife through gritted teeth who luckily heard me and came rushing down from bed and got me a bag so I could reduce my oxygen levels but I was terrified. I have never had a panic attack before, and never since. I was terrified beyond belief, it felt like a heart attack my chest hurt so much.

She was terified herself and asked what had happened. In my imbalanced state I shouted at her that she was an addict according to this site and that I didn't know who she was anymore. (I know, master of tact and diplomacy).

We talked afterward but she wasn't really listening to what I was trying to say and I was too out of sorts to properly convey it. Eventually it was just like every other talk that in the end got us nowhere. Except this time I had told her I thought she was an addict.

And now she was hostile, for a long while. I noticed her behaviour changing for the worse toward me, less attention, less intimacy, more evening-long gaming sessions. But the housework never suffered. We ate homecooked meals every night. Both my packed lunches and our kids lunches were always ready in the morning.

I think she was trying to show me that it was under control. She could do everything necessary, gaming was just recreation.

I was lost at this point. I had cast a terrible accusation at my wife without sufficient knowledge and grounding to do so and she had proved me wrong (or so I thought). And now our relationship was the worse for it. It was my fault.

I started to wonder how it was possible for me to see a problem that wasn't there, how could it be all in my head. I scoured websites looking for self-diagnosis tools and eventually went to the mental health clinic behind my wife's back to ask for help or guidance and broke down in the main hospital entrance lobby when the woman in charge told me there was no support group within a hundred miles for me (I have no car).

I went home thoroughly depressed and unsure what to do. I didn't talk about it, just stewed for a long time.

Eventually I came back to OLGA and started reading again, only a little here and there but soon realized I might not have been wrong after all. I decided to look further into it and find out once and for all if possible. I went back to paypal and learnt how to use the history tab to look back.

I thought I was ready for it but when I finally saw it I wept heavily. I went for a long walk at 3 in the morning to the edge of town and started howling and screaming at the wind and nearly lost myself altogether. It was a long walk back and I had time to think. I still didn't know enough to argue my corner sufficiently so I somehow found it in me to say nothing.

We had been struggling with finances for years, always at the bottom of the overdraft, a few pounds away from bank charges and I had taken to abstaining from a lot of things to make the books balance, I asked for as little as possible. My wife had been using up as much money as she could without going beyond overdraft. There was always enough at birthdays or christmas, otherwise I might have suspected something but other than that it was all hers.

In a little over two years she had spent over PS3000. And thats english pounds. $4500.

I lost all respect for my wife that day, but for the sake of my children I have managed to put on a mask every day since then and be 'normal'. I didn't stop her spending though. I don't know why. I suppose part of me wanted her to keep digging the hole so that when it finally got too deep I could just pile it in on top of her and walk away.

And by that point I knew she was addicted. She wouldn't stop. I had tried several times to become involved in the accounts, building spreadsheets on Excel to help her manage it better, offering to do inputting, always bringing her the receipts, but she sidestepped all requests to be shown the passwords and access codes that would have allowed me online access to our "joint" account.

If I had made a war of it things could have gone very badly and she was holding all the cards. So I left it. I also was no longer able to hide the fact that I detested the game and I shunned or ignored her whenever she was infront of the screen.

I carried on reading on OLGA but it took me the longest time to come across the term 'functional addict'. Until then I felt like if I tried to introduce her to this site to show her there was a problem she would just point out she didn't fit the profile and dismiss it or blame me as usual.

Whilst I was learning I started monitoring her comunication with her ingame community. It was a sneaky and distrustful thing to do. In a normal relationship I would never have considdered it, it would have signified something deeply wrong with our ability to trust one another and comunicate.

Since that no longer applied to my situation I did it. It floored me once again. I had never really worried about her flirting with guys in any meaningful sense and sure enough it was nothing but playful banter and talking shop. Except with her closest friends when it came to talking about me.

I discovered that I was a mean spirited and verbally abusive husband who was forever shouting at her, demeaning her and preaching at her. A previous night's discussion that I had started with regards to finances and cutting back on things in which we both shared ideas and made suggestions had become "uggggh...my husband lectured me for 5 hours last night on how bad I am with money"

I am glad that at that point I had read enough to know she was lying to her friends to get their support, that it was typical addict behaviour. It hurt enough even when I did know that.

About six months ago our computer burnt out from running 24 hours a day for months under heavy load due to her 'bots' that ran all her in-game accounts and did the 'boring stuff'. She had the ability to remain in contact with her friends via skype on her iphone, she was able to log in to the game briefly via our prehistoric laptop, but she was still an absolute mess, crying uncontrollably for the sudden loss of her game.

After about a day it had become apparent that to fix the computer was impossible (bottom of our overdraft again) as was buying another. She started to contemplate life without evony. I was quietly hopeful that this could be the start of the road to recovery. I started to talk to her and explain all the other wonderful things life could have in store, and that if her friends were truly her friends they would still talk to her via skype.

It was all going so well.

Then, since her birthday was approaching, all her gaming buddies clubbed together to get her a computer. When she told me she needed a bit of our money to buy it and saw my face she quickly backtracked and used her own birthday money to do it. I had no say or input. So when it came with the ram attached to the outside with stickytape and a note saying do it yourself my heart sank.

I was expected to work on this crappy computer and give her back her game. It also included a BIOS update which I had never done before. I hated it. I mean to the core of my soul HATED having to do that, because the previous computer was for work too, and the kids needed it for homework. I cried so much those nights as I tried to figure out how to fix it using the net on my old laptop. I hated her for making me do that. She took away my hope and smashed it all over the monitor.

Since then life is hard and I'm still not ready to confront her. She is stubborn. Monumentally so, and can't handle criticism, even constructive criticism, so I know this is going to be a hard battle that is likely to get very bitter very quick.

Only last month did I really discover 'functional' addicts so since then I have tried to read as much as I can.

But I think the fact that she is still functional is going to make it harder for her to see the problem.

And the worst part is she is going to start with childcare in the next month. She will be looking after my step-brother's 9 month old daughter. I have seen her neglect my own 4 year old son while I am at work by looking at the times she is chatting. She can start the moment he gets back from lunch at nursery and be on the computer very heavily if not constantly until I get home at half past five! I know it is only that pronounced rarely, but it seems to be that when something important happens in-game the game wins out over RL unless it is essential.

In other words there is the potential for a 9 month old baby to be ignored and left to her own devices and given no loving input whenever someone texts "Raid!"

I feel I have to say something, have to do something now.

I just don't know how.

P.S. you may not beleive it but this is the edited down cliff notes version of the story. If you are still reading at the end of an epic like this then I think you are an OLGA junkie, but I'll still take whatever advice is on offer.

My biggest problem is I am not prepared in any way if this goes wrong. Financially or Emotionally, and I'm an Agnostic surrounded by christians which makes going to anyone for support difficult because I know where they get their guidance and strength and I don't currently want/need that complex heated discussion with family and friends.

I am taking over my dad's company at the moment as site manager so he can semi-retire, so stepping out of my job to take better care of my children is not an option either though I have considdered it heavily.

We live on a small island with not many of the niceties of city life so support groups are few and far between. I feel very much alone.

Help

But on a brighter note! What do you call a gaming addict with orange cheeks?

Anything you like, he/she's too focused on the game to hear you anyway!

(That's called gallows humour I beleive)

exazzy
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Welcome, I'm glad you

Welcome, I'm glad you decided to post your story. Please don't call me a junkie because I read the whole thing. I am a junkie, but reading your story is part of my recovery, not my addiction.

I didnt spend any money but I definitely recognize your argument cycles. I'm not sure I have advice for your situation, it's very different from the one I created, but I wanted to say I definitely recognize the symptoms.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

Marceline
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I also read the entire

I also read the entire thing. This story is unfortunately quite similar to mine.. except that my boyfriend has no idea how much I spent... I don't even know the exact amount myself; I am too afraid to find out. And when I burnt out my last computer running bots 24/7, I did manage to scam my boyfriend into buying me another, as I needed it for "school".....

Anyway, I unfortunately do not know the answer to your question. It is a very sneaky addiction. I hope that you stick around and post more; there are lots of families here struggling with similar issues...

Best of luck

"A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears." ~Michel de Montaigne

anonnymouse
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Thanks for some feedback,

Thanks for some feedback, sorry if I offended. It was an attempt at humour but I can be a little insensitive about touchy subjects sometimes.

Anyway, today I went to the Library to try and find some literature on addiction and put in a request for The Addictive Personality in the hope it will provide a bit more insight. Also made another attempt to find out about support groups whilst I have some time off work for christmas. The doctors told me the drop-in centre was the place to get all the info I needed, but it was closed until I was back at work and only opened during the daytime when I would be working. That sucks.

I guess next is try and find a therapist to help me get my head together. I thought it would be easier than this to get help if you asked for it but it looks like it is going to take a fair ammount of effort to get anywhere.

I read some more postings and realised that I needed to start and think about me and the kids, getting my act together, getting my life back and trying to do the best for the kids, hence today's efforts. But I have this big mental barrier in my head that I can't get past. The idea of 'shutting out my wife' is something I find really hard to contemplate. When I said for better or worse I meant it. I keep looking for ways that I can help her, methods of getting through without the need for some big showdown. Deep down inside I don't want to considder that we may have to seperate or move apart if she cannot accept or deal with the fact of being addicted. If it came to it I would back down, I wouldn't follow through. I still love her too much.

Most days she is away from the computer for mealtimes, to get the kids ready for events, or when family visit like yesterday. In those periods I see her having genuine fun in real life. We interact and everything is like normal for a while. She is attentive to the kids and plays them up for a while, occasionally I get an unexpected kiss or hug and I feel happy for a while. I get to make her laugh some of those deep belly-laughs. Then she goes back to the computer and the dark clouds descend again. I heard a line in a song once that I used to think was really stupid but now I start to understand the truth of it.

"Love you too much to leave, don't like you enough to stay"

Man my head is a mess.

I think I'm making a point or have something to say when I start typing but when I re-read it I realise it's like unstructured and directionless verbal diohrea.

Does anyone have any useful suggestions of ways they went about getting their head together and finding a path to walk, as opposed to just randomly wandering the landscape like me?

exazzy
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Getting help is never free.

Getting help is never free. I've learned this a bunch of times. Its time consuming and it takes persistence and determination, just when you feel lowest. Sucks, but that's how it is. You can't be defeated by your work needs, you have to decide its important enough to leave work early. It just is.

My wife read Co-Dependent No More by Melanie Beattie. I have to admit I thought of that when you said how much you hated putting together her gaming computer, but you didn't say no I won't do that.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

Bill F.
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I too have heard

I too have heard Co-Dependant No More is a great book. I have addiction coursing through my veins and family, and have had several family members who have benefitted greatly by it.

I really don't feel right giving you advice on how to "Fix" the problem. I am the child of a marriage which was very similar to what you described. I think its a little too close to home for me.

So I'm just gonna say that This is the place to be. Try to put recovery first. Reach out for help from your family (father maybe?) Do as much learning as you can. There is a difference between letting your wife hit bottom, and letting her take you and the kids with you. A big difference.

I'm really glad you're here.

Last game played: April 24th 2014

hummingbird
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Wow, I was touched when your

Wow, I was touched when your wife seems present in the moment like at dinner...I almost wanted to ask her to stay awhile longer!...

I can't help you fix this or tell you what to do but I can share some experiences...I found that Al anon helps in helping us understand that tough "for better or worse" part...how you can still love the person and disengage lovingly from the disease (I still struggle with this...need to listen to my own words here...) and not enable the addiction, or feed the disease. Hope this helps...not sure if you can find an Al anon meeting where you are.

PS it is Ok to wander...wander around this site...lots to learn and great support here. Glad you are here.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

momwithhope
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Thanks for sharing

Thanks for sharing Anonnymouse. I like your sense of humor and appreciate your ability to use it in such dire circumstances. My story is a bit different than yours but the feelings I have are very similar. We've had to make difficulty decisions for the care of our son that weren't always supported by friends and family. I know that this has effected my well being and that's why I have come to this site. My son's recovery is his business and all I can do is support his growth and not enable his addictive behavior. We've given him many opportunities to get well and if he chooses not to take them, we have to live with that. I love him too much to let him continue down the road he was on.

Two things are helping me through this. One is setting clear limits with him and being direct about our expectations and the other is talking/sharing with people who have gone through or are also going through living with addiction. The people here are most helpful because I keep hearing our story but I've also gotten comfort in attending local Al-anon and Families Anonymous meetings. It is still difficult but there is hope here. People do recover and life gets better.

I hope you keep coming back...

"Sometimes the purest form of love is a slap."

anonnymouse
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Today I tried to be

Today I tried to be stronger. I woke up late after spending too much time here last night, but decided to get on with the day. I set to looking for chores to do and found that despite the fact my wife had been up for 3 hours already nothing had been done. Apparently when I'm asleep she can game without 'consequences'. So I dug in and spent the entire day hard at work. I gave the kids as much attention as I could and kept them organised and tidy(ish) when their friends came round to play. I did the shopping singlehandedly and carried it home in the wind and rain on my pushbike. At the end of the day it felt like a small acheivement that I had concentrated on what needed to be done and had not spent a single moment in a depressed stupor. My children had a happy day today, I'm proud of that.

And through all of it my wife barely left the computer at all except to help putting shopping away and make tea. I made it my mission to be elsewhere in the house and kept the kids away as much as possible too. If she is going to chose IT over us I want to try and make it obvious she doesn't get to have both.

I started building a new accounts package on the old laptop this evening, but I set myself up in the kitchen with some soothing background music to drown out the wind and the sound of those incessantly tapping keys! The kitchen became my own little haven and I managed a degree of clarity and concentration that is normally lacking these days.

I don't know where I got the strength from today, I felt less powerless than I have in a long time even though nothing has really changed. I think for the longest time I have thought of this as something without end, a new state of normality. I am finally starting to realize that there is an end to this road, whichever way it goes, after which it is possible to pick up the pieces and heal. Knowing that an end is out there waiting I find myself suddenly a lot more eager to start the journey so as not to prolong the agony.

I think you guys are to blame for that dawning realization, so thank you to everyone that has taken time to reply or has posted their insightful comments on other forum posts, it all seems to be helping.

exazzy
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Something changed. Try to

Something changed. Try to keep it that way. It must be incredibly difficult, as it is for us 'quitters' to change patterns, but its well worth it.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

Kate1song
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anonnymouse wrote: I am
anonnymouse wrote:

I am finally starting to realize that there is an end to this road, whichever way it goes, after which it is possible to pick up the pieces and heal. Knowing that an end is out there waiting I find myself suddenly a lot more eager to start the journey so as not to prolong the agony.

I think you guys are to blame for that dawning realization, so thank you to everyone that has taken time to reply or has posted their insightful comments on other forum posts, it all seems to be helping.

Hugs. Praying for you and your family, and especially your lost wife.

She's no idea what she is missing and what she might lose for the sake of pixels and faraway friends. They would never go buy food for her, take care of her when she's sick, and would never love her like you do.. So sad :(

hummingbird
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Yes, indeed something did

Yes, indeed something did change...you redirected the focus back onto you and the kids...perhaps through disclosing here and accepting the support and insight from others who understand. So please keep writing it out and coming back. And I agree with everything Kate said above....

Hugs to you.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

anonnymouse
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I went out my way to give

I went out my way to give the kids more time today, played some games, talked, went out in the shed to tidy up and had long lazy hugs. Then my sister came round with her daughter and we all had an evening together playing games (even my wife). I kept myself busy and kept the focus purely on the kids, I did not spend any time trying to start conversations with my wife but was polite and responsive when she made the effort.

I think she is starting to notice my lack of attention. Every so often she would come and stand next to me while I was busy. Didn't have anything much to say, wasn't offering to help, just seemed to want me to acknowledge she was there. She would stand there for a few minutes then drift off back to the computer and keep playing. It was kind of creepy being observed by her that way.

This evening I decided to make my life easier. I found out an old wireless dongle and got it working with the dinosaur laptop so I don't have to wait until after midnight when she goes to bed to get on to OLGA and have my time. Means I can get to bed earlier than 2 in the morning.

I have also stopped deleting history on the browser after I have been here. In some perverse way I am hoping she may check up on what I do each night and end up here voluntarily rather than by force. If she reads this post it might be the best way I can get the message across to her of how I feel without the likelihood of an argument errupting that stops her from taking in what I am trying to tell her.

Today had some awkwardness to it. (I am just replaying the day in my head so sorry if this looks more like jumbled thoughts than narrative). I have made a conscious effort to stop pretending everything is alright, which requires effort because I have been doing it for so long. Instead of positive responses to allay her fears I have started to give neutral or honest negative answers where appropriate. But when my sister came round I realised this could become a problem. I think by some of my responses and lack of readiness to back my wife up that it was obvious to my sister something was not quite right between us. Since my sister likes to stick her oar in somewhat and has a skewed sense of confidentiality, I have a feeling that this is going to become common knowledge in my family very soon, and knowing my sister's 'unique' perspectives it is likely to be misinterpreted.

So far I have kept this entirely to myself. My wife has no real connections to her side of the family who live 500 miles away, so my family is her only family. She has always been nervous around them and worried excessively about approval. If she starts to get dissaproval from them all at the same time I don't know what will happen. She has suffered major self-esteem issues from a young age due to never having a father, suffering terribly at the hands of her mother's various psychologically imbalanced partners, and being abandonned by her mum and sent to live at her grandparents where they used religion as a tool to demean her. It has taken most of our married life for me to help her overcome these self esteem issues and we're still not totally there yet. My support and constant insistance that she is a good person and good mother have been important steps in building that self-esteem. Now I'm about to pull that all out from underneath her. Truth is I don't think she is a good mother or wife at the moment, but losing the support and respect of her entire family all at once could do the kind of damage she may not come back from.

I have been thinking this out as i type, and even though I started out this post fairly positive I suddenly find myself immensely depressed at what I may be about to do voluntarily to the person I love.

Thanks for the hugs, suddenly realising how much I need them.

hummingbird
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Many, many HUGS to you. You

Many, many HUGS to you.

You deserve them. This is not easy nor simple by any means. It is really, really hard and complicated. Some days I wake up and for a brief minute, I forget the struggle. I also often start out feeling positive about progress in my mind then feel depressed, confused and overwhelmed almost at the same time. Sometimes, this is a veritable roller coaster with no brakes. But it is good that you refocused your energy to your kids and had long hugs. Amazing that she noticed but didn't know what to do with it. That is a start.

From someone who understands what you are expereincing and feeling, I think you are doing great. You are not doing this voluntarily to her. You did not cause her addiction, you are not responsible for it, nor can you control it. Understanding her self esteem issues and her difficult childhood with loving compassion is wonderful but very different from enabling an addiction. It is hard to keep them separate and I struggle with this. My son lost his uncle then his dad within a year, he is very smart but has really tough learning disabilities, he has had to move alot, leaving friends and memories each time. He has many reasons to want to escape and he is vulnerable and emotionally fragile and immature. I can understand his issues and have compassion for the rotten hand he has been dealt in life while not making it comfortable for him to game in my house and ignore his responsibilities or growing up.

I think it is OK to step back, take care of yourself and the kids and let the chips fall where they will due to her choices. It is easy for me to say and for my head to accept the concept but still hard for me to do it consistently. This is the power of sharing here. We can help each other.

Please keep writing it out and coming back.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

Kate1song
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it's ok. I did some aweful

it's ok. I did some aweful things in the height of my addiction that embarassed me terribly in front of my husbands family and mine. You dont have to tell them everything but dont hide. Alkwardness is part of your wife's hitting bottom. My brother inlaw actualy yelled at me when I visited them because I was on the computer all the time. I'm horrified by that now... But it was good for me...

anonnymouse
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exazzy wrote: My wife read
exazzy wrote:

My wife read Co-Dependent No More by Melanie Beattie. I have to admit I thought of that when you said how much you hated putting together her gaming computer, but you didn't say no I won't do that.

Well... It starts today then. Today I was handed an opportunity to say no and mean it, and I took it. Last night we had an electrical storm that shut off the power twice in rapid succession and kept it off for about an hour. I woke up this morning to find that when my wife had attempted to turn the computer back on and get her computer games running again the storm had fried the net drivers out of existence. She had already contacted the phone company and tried downloading new ones but it wasn't working. She woke me up to ask for my help fixing it.

The kids were about to go to church with their grandparents and I had been planning to head to the gym for a while but it looked like those plans were scuppered. I lay in bed for ten minutes thinking about what you had said exazzy and decided this was the ideal time to stand my ground. I got up, had breakfast and prepared to go to the gym whilst I waited for the kids grandparents to arrive then, once they had gone I told her I was not going to fix it and it was unfair of her to ask me to. I told her I was going to the gym as planned and got a frustrated look and the dismissive "Fine, whatever" over and over again to anything I said so I just went.

I must admit I didn't feel suddenly any better or stronger for having done it, just sick to my stomach with worry for what was going to happen next.

When I got home she was out at the shop so I made a coffee and went up into the bedroom to stay out of the way and give her some space to sort her head out. Her way of dealing with it was initially to ignore me and stay out of my way as much as possible whilst going on a complete cleaning bender to try and keep herself occupied.

After the kids had got back and had lunch I occupied them all in the kitchen with painting so she had as much time as she needed and she eventually went up to bed with a terrible migraine (withdrawal symptom?) We managed some civil conversation in the evening when she came back down and she even joined us on the sofas as we sat and watched a film together as a family. It seems like such a long time since we have all been together like that. But the children are favouring me at the moment so when I went to sit down on the floor our youngest jumped off her lap and came to give me a big snuggle instead, I think that had an effect. It has been happening for a long while and more and more of recent but wrapped up in her gaming I don't think she's ever really registered it or realised the significance of it.

After the kids went to bed I went in the kitchen so I could have the lights on to do more on my accounts as her eyes were very light sensitive. Without the kids around as a safety buffer to ensure I wouldn't say anything she didn't say another word to me. She watched a soap opera on her I-phone (we have no television) then went to bed early.

Thing is, I think she's afraid of the other things I want to say to her, but I don't really want to say anything at the moment. I've said pretty much everything I wanted her to hear over the past months/years of arguments/discussions. Just because she wasn't listening doesn't mean I want to go over it all again.

My biggest fear at the moment is what is going to happen in the next few days. We still have the shell of the old computer she burnt out. For the sum of a new motherboard and memory she can get that working again. The existing PC can probably be fixed by anyone with a bit of knowhow, and my brother is giving me his old but still decent laptop in the next few days as our family christmas present. Whatever happens she is not going to be off the laptop or the game for long, this is only a temporary reprive.

And once I'm back at work she may be gaming extra hard and extra long all the time I'm at work so she can turn it off when I get home and be 'compliant'. And then she starts childminding soon too.

No, today doesn't feel like an achievement, it feels like stepping off the edge of the cliff into the unknown.

dan1
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But an achievement it is. 

But an achievement it is. As a very well-respected friend of mine is fond of saying, "Let the discomfort inform you." She has felt free to neglect your relationship and your children for how long? And you are simply deciding not to help her do that more? Hmmmm.

Of course, if she is really addicted (sounds like it) she will find a way to game again. And addiction is progressive, so it will probably be worse, as you say. That's on her shoulders, but this time, not at all on yours.

My partner disengaged from me (by leaving our 21-year relationship) because I was not present, negative, blaming and not bothering to have any kind of a life to share with him. My fault, not his. Unfortunately I lost something that meant much more to me than gaming did, but didn't even realize that gaming was a part of why I lost it. And it's never coming back. Sad, but it happens. For me, it happened before I saw I was on an elevator going down, before I chose to get off. At least you have been clear with your wife about what the problem is. She knows; will she act?

I am a recovering computer game and gambling addict. My recovery birthday: On May 6, 2012 I quit games and began working a program of recovery through OLGA No computer games or slot games for me since December 12, 2012. No solitaire games with real cards since June 2013.

exazzy
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I'll return your humor and

I'll return your humor and say Uh, not sure I want you thinking about me while you're lying in bed. :p

In all seriousness, I applaud your making changes. If what you were doing wasn't working, your courage to make changes is outstanding and very inspiring.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

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I agree with Dan939: It is

I agree with Dan939: It is an achievement! even though it may not feel like it at all. And I know that feeling of free falling off a cliff during this crazy roller ocaster. But you are not alone. We have been surviving around our gamers' addictions for so long that changing how we respond is indeed unknown territory. But the good news is that you said no to enabling her. Next time it will be easier and I hope it will feel less like an extreme sport.

It takes time for change. Hang in there. We are here to support you.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

Gettingalife
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How familiar I am with that

How familiar I am with that feeling of knowing change needs to be made but...dang! change is scary! And taking those first steps toward change seem to be the scariest. The Serenity Prayer comes in real handy about then - God, grant me the serenity to accept what I can not change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. One day at a time.

Acceptance. When I am disturbed, it is because a person, place, thing, or situation is unacceptable to me. I find no serenity until I accept my life as being exactly the way it is meant to be. Nothing happens in God’s world by mistake.  Acknowledge the problem, but live the solution!

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*sigh* I really don't know

*sigh* I really don't know what to say today. I had a lot of trouble getting any rest last night. Between headache and night terrors I didn't get to sleep till 5 in the morning. When I woke around 11 everything seemed calm, the wife was busying herself with chores again to keep her mind occupied, but one of the kids let slip that she had spent about 3 hours trying to fix the computer whilst I was asleep and had carefully put everything back before I woke up. I really think she doesn't understand what I said or what it meant when I told her that I wouldn't do it. I'm sure she doesn't understand the reason why I didn't want to do it. That it has more to do with me than it does with her.

Now she is sneaking round behind my back, whilst trying to appear as if she's accepted it to my face. I don't know what I expected really, but it's different to see her actually doing it as opposed to being told what is likely to happen. I have a feeling she is trying to maintain normality until I have to go back to work and she can have plenty of free time in the day to fix the computer and binge game, ignoring the needs of her children. Apparently the network drivers on the computer that is bust are simply not there, like they were deleted or something. I have no clue how that sort of thing can happen from a lightning strike but I think I can guess for **** sure who is going to get the blame for it.

We went to my sister's tonight for a new years party and came back around 10. There was much joviality, everyone there laughed and joined in. I thought it would be a positive reinforcement of the fact that she could still have a community of people to make her laugh without the need for her game. Probably just served to remind her how much she was missing talking to her gang whilst sat on her own staring at a screen reading lines of text. It's a sad inferior parody of reality, I don't understand how people can call it 'socialising' to sit in a room on your own.

I need to try and talk to her again. It will probably not get me anywhere and I'm pretty sure it is going to be lot more heated than any previous discussion since I became 'aggressive' with her by saying no in a calm tone of voice and walking away. Unfortunately she keeps having evening migraines and I know she can't hold a conversation during those, but I need to keep on trying. We are accelerating now, this is the downslope of the rollercoaster. We can't just pretend everything is alright anymore. It's gathering steam and soon either she will change her mind and then we start the slow upslope,...

Or she goes headlong back into the addiction and the ride derails.

I've never felt so confused or in pain in all my life, how is it possible for someone not to see that they are loved and this is done out of love for them, despite the pain we have to go through and the low chances of success we do it anyway.

This seems to be a competition to her, either she wins or I do. WTF? When did we take up on opposite teams? If she thinks I have won what does that mean? What do I win? A bitter and resentful wife who hates my guts and thinks all I want is to control and manipulate her. Is that why she thinks I'm doing this? For a prize like that? The truth is we have been losing for years. Losing the attention, respect and love of someone we care for dearly, and who used to care for us. This course of action is all that is left, but the only way left to win is for her to come back to our team so we can all win together, otherwise everyone loses.

Yah, struggling to hold on to the hope today.

Happy new year to all who grace this place with their wisdom.

dan1
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That includes you, mouse. 

That includes you, mouse. Lots of wisdom in your post. You are going into new territory, but you're smart and emotionally connected. Happy New Year to you as well.

I am a recovering computer game and gambling addict. My recovery birthday: On May 6, 2012 I quit games and began working a program of recovery through OLGA No computer games or slot games for me since December 12, 2012. No solitaire games with real cards since June 2013.

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I agree with what Dan said,

I agree with what Dan said, mouse. And please hold onto that hope.

anonnymouse wrote:

I've never felt so confused or in pain in all my life, how is it possible for someone not to see that they are loved and this is done out of love for them, despite the pain we have to go through and the low chances of success we do it anyway.

This seems to be a competition to her, either she wins or I do. WTF? When did we take up on opposite teams? If she thinks I have won what does that mean? What do I win? A bitter and resentful wife who hates my guts and thinks all I want is to control and manipulate her. Is that why she thinks I'm doing this? For a prize like that? The truth is we have been losing for years. Losing the attention, respect and love of someone we care for dearly, and who used to care for us. This course of action is all that is left, but the only way left to win is for her to come back to our team so we can all win together, otherwise everyone loses.

What you said resonates as so true for me, too. At this point in dealing with my addicted son, I realize that our relationship has morphed into full blown gaming strategy. I am not his mom, on his team, we are not a family...I am an opponent. He seems totally brainwashed. It is a competition between his addicted brain, which is incredibly intelligent and cunning, and me, the one who knows the truth and can not be bamboozled... the one who still loves him and wants better for him. We who love addicted gamers are dealing with the addiction, the addicted brain and not our true loved ones. They are lost for now but when we stop enabling...we clear a path for them to find their way back home. And I pray that they see it and take it.

This is really hard. But we are in this together. We are pulling for you. Hang onto whatever hope you can and keep going.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

anonnymouse
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Well that was it then. On

Well that was it then. On Tuesday night we talked. We started at ten and finished at two in the morning. We both managed to keep our temper out of it. We both talked and listened in turn and expressed an awful lot of how we felt. I t was very tearful at times and I had a serious breakdown toward the end like I have never had before, an outpouring of feeling that was honest and shocked even me to a degree. I thought major progress was being made.

But I found the strength to touch on the sorest point of all for her, the money. She can explain away or deny the time spent gaming when I'm not there to see it and claim her and the kids have a wonderful time while I'm not around and I can't dispute it without getting the kids involved. But the money she spent she spent. And when I mentioned it she said she didn't do that anymore, then that she did but not much. When I told her I had seen how much she had spent in the next week she was first 'disturbed' that I had checked up on our mutual paypal account and then got all flustered and aggravated, started saying "it can't have been that much" then started to get angry when I pressed on and told me we had to stop because she was getting riled up. We calmed down for a minute then she decided we needed to go about the conversation differently and led it off on a different track which involved me having to admit that she 'deserved' some game time to unwind, that her choice of friends was hers to make, and that perhaps I was overreacting a bit or that we were both equally to blame for the relationship failing. And all of this drew the conversation away from money.

After another hour of talking we were cheering up a little, and she kept drawing the conversation into silly sideallies talking about nonsense and dancing around the issues. She never apologised once for any of it. In her eyes, without her having to say it I was totally to blame.

It seemed like the conversation was drawing to a close when I sat and thought for a minute and realised how she had avoided the money conversation and I found the courage to tell her I wanted to discuss it and was worried by the ammount of stress it caused her when it came into conversation. I told her I thought the ammount she had been spending was an unjustifiably large ammount, especially since it had been hidden from me, and it was my single most unshaken concern which kept leading me to believe she was not in control and addicted.

I then told her about this site and where I had got my information from and she was very worried that I had been talking to people and reading about gaming.

I asked her to think about whether she thought that the ammount she spends is excessive or not. Tomorrow I am going to demand an answer. And whatever the answer might be I think I will need to take over sole control of the accounts as I can no longer trust her.

This morning I woke up early and logged into her chat account, wanting to know what she really felt about our conversation and had told her closest friends.

She had stood her ground against my unreasonable accusations and fought her corner. See what I mean, we're still on opposite teams in her head. Then she asked for detailed advice on how to conceal her spending habits by circumventing paypal which I know how to access. She obviously just wants to conceal her behaviours better so I don't spot them and carry on spending like before. She also told her best friend that during today she would give her a detailed account of what happened. And that she was going to change all of her passwords first to make sure I was out of the loop.

Sure enough this evening they have changed. I know how terrible it is that I stoop to the level of spying on my own wife, but it has allowed me to see the other side of her, the addict, that has nothing but criticism and hostility for me. I doubted for a while she was an addict until I saw the way she twisted everything about me to portray a negative and abusive person to garner support from her friends. Much as I hate doing it and realise it has become my own unhealthy habit, I think if there is any change internally in her thinking it will show up here when the negativity stops. Only now I don't know what she is saying anymore. Her best friend seems quite heavily addicted and has lost her long term partner due to aggressiveness so the way I am described strikes a chord with her. In her eyes my wife is a victim of my brutality and she daily tells her she's too good for me and she should kick me out, divorce me, seek vengeance on me for my behaviour in all manner of creative ways. With that kind of poisonous asp in her ear I think any progress she could make will be stunted or short lived.

After a few hours of elation at finally communicating with my wife openly as I had been wanting to for years, depression has descended once more. And now my dad has a heart problem and may be retiring sooner rather than later which puts more professional pressure on me at work too. Never rains but it pours.

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I'm sorry it didn't go

I'm sorry it didn't go better, but having been there, for years at a time, I'm not surprised. What made it real for me to see the problem? My wife 'released' me and told me, believably and honestly, if I wanted to continue doing what I was doing, I was free to do so, alone.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

anonnymouse
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But then you have to follow

But then you have to follow through with a promise like that or it means nothing.

I don't think I could kick her out or live right next to her as a stranger in my own house. Either one would be so damaging to the kids to live through. At the moment they are aged 4,7 and 10, so they are not going to understand. And the chances are she will fight for and win custody because she is their mother. The only thing worse than her gaming here in the family home would be for her to be doing it without me there so the children get no attention or love and are improperly cared for.

Oh man, I so need to find a counsellor.

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Ah man I'm right there with

Ah man I'm right there with you mouse. All this is so familiar with me and my wife. She won't talk thou. Only time she does is texting and that is not a way to communicate. I also have kids and she has threatened to divorce when she starts working full time and gets the money. But I'm sure she will get the kids and I worry about it as well. Only thing worse than losing my wife is not being able to tuck my kids in every night. It is a emotional roller coaster for sure.

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Hey man, I'm really glad

Hey man, I'm really glad you're continuing to post here. This really is the place to be.

I do feel like sharing a bit of personal experience now, I am (or at least am very suspicious I am) the child of an alcoholic father. I cannot say with 100% certainty that he is or was an alcoholic, but his behavior is so similar to what you've described about your wife. Neglectful, dismissive, and unremorseful are just a few choice words that pop out to me.

My mother was not sure, and still isn't sure of, his addiction. The only thing she was sure of was that if she stayed with him, or let my brother and I stay with him, that we would die. He was dragging our family down financially and emotionally scarring my brother and me. If he didn't "accidentally" kill me or my brother (he almost drown me once trying to get me to "swim in the deep end" of my grandparents pool when I was three and terrified) my mother says she would have killed herself working hard enough to support us, or would have been driven plain insane.

Now, both my brother and I are addicts. He found substances and I preferred games. I understand more so than ever that when someone is an addict, they do not CHOOSE anything. I did not choose to game and fail out college, my brother did not choose to drink and drug and so go to jail, and my father did not choose to be a bad father. We addicts are sick, and in active addiction, our brain is wired so that NOTHING is as important as our our fix.

As I've recently learned, there is something called the "frontal lobe/cortex." It controls high brain functions: rational, love, logic, reason, common sense, creativity, etc. When an addicts drug/process is active however THAT PART OF THE BRAIN SHUTS OFF! It's not that, when I game I can think and reason why I'm doing it, I CANNOT reason or remember how much my family loves while gaming. That part of my brain is gone while I'm gaming. The part of the brain that takes control is the "mid brain" or "lizard brain" which basically only handles survival instincts. Addictions are addictions, because they get "tagged" or added to the list of survival activities. When I don't game, and when I have a craving, I feel like something worse than death is about to happen, and that gaming is the only way to stop. I can't be reasoned with: that part of my brain isn't even RUNNING.

TL;DR

So I do not believe your wife is competing with you, I believe she is competing with anything that keeps her from her game. I believe she is sick, and that she cannot control her desire or urges. I also believe that trying to care for and live with an an acitvely addicted person is destructive to everyone's stability and happiness (financially and otherwise) and that a family or friend should feel NO guilt in doing what is best for themselves (the anon). I would be dead if my mother hasn't done this.

I really feel for you and pray for. You're doing all the right things. I believe in you, and wish I could give you the biggest hug ever. I really wish the best for you and your family.

Sorry for the rant response, but this a very rough subject for me. It combines my viewpoints and experiences as an anon of alcohol and drugs, growing up in a broken family, and my own gaming addiction. I apologize if anything I wrote was mean or if it offends or angers: I'm pretty emotionally heated by the subject.

Last game played: April 24th 2014

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Hugs Chris.  You're

Hugs Chris. You're obviously invested.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

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Well it's 4 days later and

Well it's 4 days later and we still haven't talked. She has been spending more time with me and the kids when I'm around and not even turning the screen on. But yesterday my 4 year old son mentioned our old dead computer, that it was being fixed. My wife quickly silenced him and told him to eat his food, but it had been said and suddenly my heart was racing. I realised that I had been waiting for something to occur, I had never really believed things were actually getting better, it was just her playing a part. I checked in the cupboard and the computer is gone, I assume it's being fixed at the shop, in case her computer breaks again so I can't keep her offline by refusing to fix it. Two of our children's birthdays are coming up and I know we don't have the money spare for this, things are tight as it is.

I looked at one of her online bots and sure enough she has been playing for large portions of the day whilst I am at work despite me asking her not to do it around the kids. Her few days of moderating 'for me' are about done it seems, that didn't last long.

Last night I went to the gym with a friend for an hour or so after work. That was all the excuse she needed to be on the computer all night since I was doing something I enjoyed. She even asked my permission before I went out. I had to really bite my lip and just reply "fine, whatever" as the kids were around listening. I told her later I didn't want her asking me permission as she was an adult and could do what she pleased. I really don't think she understood that this was exactly the same as her asking me to fix the computer. She was asking me to say that tonight it was alright to game, but in my mind it is never alright for her to game. She doesn't even remotely see how much pain she is causing me asking questions like that.

The last time I posted I couldn't get to sleep, and after 3 hours of trying I went downstairs and started typing, hoping venting it all might help me relax enough to sleep. After an hour she woke up and came down to see where I was and was most unhappy at what I was doing. She told me "If it was me down here on the computer at 4 in the morning you would be really annoyed".

And it's true I would. I just couldn't seem to bring myself to sit and type my heart out in the evening when she was glancing over my shoulder, once she had gone to bed it seemed less pressured. If I was feeling sad there was no-one to judge me if I ended up crying again. But I don't know if that's just my rationalisation. I shouldn't really be doing things I wouldn't want her doing. So tonight I've taken the computer up into the bedroom while she games downstairs to get some peace. But somehow I know I'm gonna be up until late becomes early again. Even if I'm not at the computer.

When we talked she asked me if I planned on leaving, or she tried to. I shouted "NO! I'm not going anywhere!" And I meant that. In a positive way too. I made vows which I intended to keep with all my heart. I know that life is going to have it's hard points, that marriages will be tested and undergo hardships, lord knows we've weathered enough of them together already. But when I said that I thought that she might be starting to realise the problem. We were talking for the first time since the gaming began, and she was agreeing the time spent was too much, that she may have been to blame, that things would have to change.

A few days down the line things are not the same as always, they are worse. I'm pretty sure she is playing very heavily during the day and neglecting our son even more. I'm pretty sure she has found new ways to keep spending money we can't afford, and I'm almost certain that when she talks to her friends I am still the enemy.

I'm still not thinking about leaving this family, there is no reason I should abandon all the people I love the most. But I'm starting to think about what Exazzy said, releasing her and letting her go it alone. I think about all the ways to say it, about what the final straw will be for me when I can finally take no more, about how to do it whilst causing the least harm and distress to the kids. It consumes my thoughts a lot. Then I come round after hours of staring into nothing and realise that I have pretty much given up hope on my wife.

I think that is wrong of me. She deserves more warning than that, more compassion. I will be taking everything away from her in so doing. It will destroy her in a way unlike most would experience it. I may do it with the best intentions but I would still be destroying someone elses life to better my own. That doesn't sit well with me.

The problem is everyday it gets harder. Recently it has gotten much harder. My youngest cried tonight after a happy story at bedtime, and he couldn't tell me why. I have this sinking feeling that what is happening here is already leaving it's damaging mark on my children. I struggle now more than ever to smile and be happy and excited around them and retreat from them more so they don't see my sadness. My temper is sometimes short with them when they have done little to earn it. When I realise what i've done it breaks my heart that I am making them suffer the brunt of my frustration and despair. Everyday I try again to be a good father for them, and each day it gets progressively harder and takes more of my remaining strength.

I may not want to deal my wife the final blow but I'm pretty sure I can't hold out like this a great deal longer.

exazzy
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anonnymouse wrote: I may do
anonnymouse wrote:

I may do it with the best intentions but I would still be destroying someone elses life to better my own. That doesn't sit well with me.

You didn't start reading Codependent No More, did you?

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

hummingbird
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anonnymouse wrote: The last
anonnymouse wrote:

The last time I posted I couldn't get to sleep, and after 3 hours of trying I went downstairs and started typing, hoping venting it all might help me relax enough to sleep. After an hour she woke up and came down to see where I was and was most unhappy at what I was doing. She told me "If it was me down here on the computer at 4 in the morning you would be really annoyed".

....I shouldn't really be doing things I wouldn't want her doing.

Wow, Anonnymouse, I feel your pain. Going through all this, trying to reason with a gamer we love gets so overwhelming and confusing at times. Lots of smoke screens. I am still amazed at how I let myself believe that my son is awakening to the problem only to turn around and realize that I was duped again. he can't stop himself. He has to hit rock bottom.

I wanted to share something about what you said above. My gaming son said the same thing- just another ploy to stop me from intefering with the gaming status quo. At first I was afraid to let him know that I was attending meetings here and posting. But after a few meetings, I let him know and showed him...he laughed at me and said, "Hey, you're doing the same thing as me now...you're online an hour or 2 a day now...isn't that just hypocritical....and you take a bunch of strangers' advice on something you know nothing about? how pathetic!" and went back to gaming. My older son also questioned my being online here as well. Well, what they don't see is that it is not the same thing. I am not neglecting my responsibilities but rather I am learning, sharing, getting more educated and enlightened to the nature and scope of this addiction by being here, finding support and compassion. I am getting stronger and healthier by being here. This is a positive thing. Gaming doesn't offer this only an alluring allusion of it. So I was thinking that no, you are not doing something that you wouldn't want her to do...you are actually doing something that you would want her to do. I want my gaming son to be here more than anything right now...and I believe that his recovery will depend on it but alas, he has to want it....

It's all about perspectives. Mine has changed the better, I believe, since I have joined here. Keep writing and keep coming back.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

dan1
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I'm sorry, going downstairs

I'm sorry, going downstairs to write, in order to relax enough to go back to sleep, at 4 in the morning, because of the stresses put on you by living with someone who plays games constantly, is not the same as playing a game all night. We gamers are so, so, so full of utter bs. We will say anything to justify our addiction. And blame other people, even when they are doing things to try to help us. And we try to make our out-of-control behavior seem normal by comparing it with others' inappropriately. It's a devious kind of insane rhetoric we put out, but I hope you don't fall for it. Best wishes. :)

I am a recovering computer game and gambling addict. My recovery birthday: On May 6, 2012 I quit games and began working a program of recovery through OLGA No computer games or slot games for me since December 12, 2012. No solitaire games with real cards since June 2013.

anonnymouse
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Well, we talked again the

Well, we talked again the other night. It was unplanned but I was struggling to sleep again and when she woke to go to the bathroom I asked what was on my mind about the mysterious computer repair. Aparently it was going to be a surprise for me, even though we have no monitor to use it or place for it as yet. I accused her of sneaking around behind my back and being devious which she denied as a misunderstanding.

It lead to a much longer conversation than I thought it would and once again we managed to comunicate without anger or raised voices and covered new ground. She told me she had been making a big effort to game less around me (which she had) and felt I was always highlighting the negatives of her behaviour rather than thanking her for the positives. It's true, I do this a lot with everyone.

I explained my fears that all the positive behaviours came from a desire to placate me rather than any truly unselfish desire. And in order to justify why I felt that way I finally came clean and admitted I had been reading some of her conversations and that my fears came from seeing the way she portrayed me to her friends. I cited a few examples and she asked me to stop. She apologised profusely and wanted to put all this behind us and start over.

She explained it was simply her frustration at me and she released it by chatting to her friends about it. (I don't see how this accounts for all the times she has outright lied to them about what has happened). She told me that it was all an innocent misunderstanding, and that she had not been sneaky or devious at all. I started to recount a few times when she had been exactly that but she stopped me with renewed pleas to forgive and forget and start again. I told her I honestly didn't think I could do that, it was too much pain for too long to not leave a scar. I offered her a compromise, I would try my best to forgive and start again if she would come here and read the "Is OLGA For You?" page. She has always refused to look at or listen to any literature on the subject but I thought if she sat and read a little it might be the start of something, even if it was only an understanding of why I had been acting the way I had and felt the way I did. She agreed to this and once again I was hopeful.

It wasn't until this morning that it dawned on me just how one sided that agreement had been. In exchange for reading a page she gets to start again guilt free. What do I get? Nothing if she doesn't take seriously what she reads. Just an awful lot of doubts.

I spent today stewing on it and feeling depressed at how easily I had been duped AGAIN!

This evening I asked if she would look at the page with me and she grudgingly agreed. We had to talk about it for half an hour first so I could explain what it was. I could tell from the ammount of fear and trepidation that she expected a Q and A session followed by an online diagnosis "You are/are not an addict." I had to listen to all of her validations about how much better she was doing, how much less time she was spending on the game, all the times she wasn't playing (but strangely, not the times she was) and many other things. Only when she saw that the arguments weren't enough to make me change my mind did she finally give up and say "okay then, let's get it over with".

I loaded the page and nipped to the toilet and by the time I got back she was halfway through the list sounding out resounding "no,...no,....no's" in a semi-cheerful voice. There was just enough time to read the sentance before the next "no", not enough time to really give it any considderation. I knew then that my fears were happening.

She finished far happier than she had sat down, turned off the browser then went and sat back on the sofa, told me very little of that applied to her and had nothing more to add other than to mention that someone else close to me fit the description far better than she did (that is a seperate hurdle altogether).

I was mildly stunned. I had expected omre questions, maybe some discussion, but she had already dismissed the questions from her head and couldn't remember any of them to discuss whether they applied or not.

After s few minutes silence conversation moved on to lighter topics and it was obvious that she had now done her duty and dismissed all my worries as useless twaddle.

Now I don't know what to do again. From our increasing levels of comunication I thought that perhaps she was having some doubts, and that providing somewhere to read up and talk to others in a similar situation it might help her make her mind up one way or the other. It would appear not. She told me that her life is about to become more busy (starting childminding) and if the game's requirements are more than she has time for she will just quit, but that she would rather do it for her own reasons and in her own time.

Does this actually ever happen? Do people sometimes stop without ever admitting that there is a problem there, without help. Does it ever really last if they do or does it just transfer to other things instead (her I-phone for instance)?

I have already told her that the only person who can ever truly know if they have a problem is the person with the problem (rather inelloquently put I fear) and I have a feeling that is going to be used as a weapon against me now. She has decided she is fine so it must be me and my co-dependency issues.

I have a feeling this is going to get far worse than I ever thought possible.

How is it possible for someone to be willing to comunicate, to hear everything you are saying and give relevant responses, to listen to you express how you feel, and still not understand what you are trying to tell them?

exazzy
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Addiction is

Addiction is self-propelling, and self-reinforcing. You are using your best smartest logical arguments against an opponent that will deny that logic even exists. That's how it's possible.

You need better tools in this battle. Expecting honesty from an addict in active addiction and leaving them alone to take a diagnostic test is not ever going to work.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

Allerseelen
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Have you ever heard the term

Have you ever heard the term "attrition"? It's used most commonly in the phrase "war of attrition" to refer to a conflict in which both sides battle until every last resource has been expended--similar to the war you're fighting now, costly, never-ending, devastating to all involved. The less common definition of "attrition," however, was originally used in the writings of Thomas Aquinas and other great thinkers in the Catholic Church; it means "repentance for sin motivated by fear of punishment rather than love of God."

I think I can speak for all of us addicts here at OLGA when I say that you will never get genuine remorse or repentance out of us when we're in the throes of addiction. There's only attrition. Sure, we might curb our behaviors for a while (or at least get better at hiding them so you think we've cut down) but it's not motivated by any real desire to moderate or quit; we just need to convince you that it's good enough for you to stay and keep enabling. Don't settle for "good enough." It always leads back to the same place: attrition.

You say you're worried about "releasing" your wife, worried about putting your own well-being above hers, worried about the damage the separation will do to your children. But let me be crystal clear about this: moments of clarity and acceptance of addiction are not cheaply bought. If your wife realizes that she has a problem, it will not be through reasoned discussion of responsibility, love, or other abstractions. She needs a slap in the face bigger than any she's ever had before, and it won't hit her until she realizes she has lost something huge and that gaming is to blame for it. If you threaten consequences and don't follow through because she shows improvement, all she's learned is that she can manipulate you with false repentance--with attrition. You say you're worried about these things, and that's perfectly natural. You're a nice guy and a good father fighting against circumstances beyond your control. But that's just the point: the circumstances are beyond your control. You can't cure your wife; only she has the power to do that. Painful though it may be to admit this to yourself, she is on an elevator that only goes down, and currently, you and your children are in there with her. If you stay, the decline is inexorable, and I guarantee that years of silent tension and hostility will scar your children much more than a quick separation. It's what happened to me. By contrast, if you get off with them now (remember, your actions are all you have control over) you can at least ensure that you begin to climb back up toward the light. With any luck, that loss will elicit genuine repentance from your wife, remorse that leads to recovery, healing, and the acceptance of truth. Even if it doesn't provoke the desired reaction, you won't have caused her projected trajectory (i.e., straight down) to become any worse.

I apologize if my radical stance sits badly with you. I understand, you're playing for extraordinarily high stakes here, juggling fire in both hands as fast as you can. Just consider how much damage you're doing to yourself by remaining in a hopeless environment, and how that compares with choosing to change your circumstances, however drastically. Whatever you decide, please keep coming back. We're here for you. Hugs.

Taking Steps toward recovery since November 2, 2012. The difficulty of the path makes it worth the walking.

exazzy
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^ What he said.

^ What he said.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

Kate1song
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 I think having her read

I think having her read that page was great. I came to Olga on my own and took the test, alone. I didn't admit anything to my husband but it did affect me.

If your wife believes she doesn't have a problem then simply tell her you don't feel comfortable with her playing her game and ask her to quit. It really shouldn't be a problem for someone who games "casually" for fun. My husband would never let gaming get in the way of our relationship, but I, who had a gaming problem, felt great anxiety over the initial prospect of quitting.

There are many other ways besides gaming, to deal with difficulty in relationships, and many other ways to deal with stress and have friends.

You can print and give her a copy of this response.

Question from me to your wife, "Can you quit gaming for a month?"

Allerseelen
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Kate1song wrote: Question
Kate1song wrote:

Question from me to your wife, "Can you quit gaming for a month?"

I don't think that's a very good litmus test, Kate, though of course that's one man's opinion. People can endure amazing amounts of pain if they know 1) that it will end, and 2) when it will end. If she stops gaming for a month, all that will have been proven is that her addiction, like all of ours, can be patient--if it must. Assuming she succeeds in the one-month embargo, she'd become even more convinced that she's absolutely fine. I can already hear the words coming from my own mouth: "See? That just goes to show I don't have a problem." And if she cheats, she's less likely to acknowledge either her own failure or the game's addictive hold on her than she is to blame it on the "unfair" time constraints her husband "forced on her." Even without the game itself, how much time would she spend browsing forums and thinking about the game? How much would you or I? Mouse could try it, sure, but I'm seeing way too many potential drawbacks to be comfortable with that course of action. It matters only that she binges, not how much time elapses between binges.

Taking Steps toward recovery since November 2, 2012. The difficulty of the path makes it worth the walking.

Kate1song
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A suggestion to her that she

A suggestion to her that she quit for a month is not a cure all. We often suggest that members take a month off from gaming and see how they feel.

My husband did and I balked at it. It was very telling.

What I am saying is based on my own experience.

Patria
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Let me share with you a

Let me share with you a story that my recovering alcoholic husband used with his son:

Dad was taking son (son was 45 y/o at the time; so not a kid) to the art store and Dad went the wrong way down a one-way street. Son told dad, hey you're going the wrong way? Dad told son, of course I am, it's quicker to get to the store. Son told dad "but it's the wrong way" and dad told son "you're just a nervous passenger."

Anytime my husband wanted to get away with something (whether sober or not) he would immediately turn it around to the other person and accuse them of having a problem.

Oh, and because I am the gamer in the family, I did that too: husband was too demanding, husband selfishly wanted all my time, husband was selfish, husband never wanted me to have fun, husband couldn't stand it if I enjoyed myself without him...etc. etc.

What did husband finally do that got my attention? he stopped paying attention to everything I did, but if i was gaming for 5 hours and told him i was only on 1 hour, he was adament that i tell the truth. If I promised to game only an hour, he would find me when the hour went into two, and kept me to hold my promise. I didn't get lectures anymore, and he didn't hover over me to get my attention. He just firmly pointed out that I was not telling the truth at the time, and he held me to my promises.

hugs!

nowheretoturn
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Hello Annonymouse!  I'm new

Hello Annonymouse! I'm new hear as well, and have read this entire thread. Not because I'm a junkie ;), but because I'm desperately searching for answers. Much of what you've been through, excluding the money spent (as far as I know) and the children, is somewhat similar to my experience. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can offer my support, but not answers since I am still in the situation myself. Hugs.

"Come all you weary with your heavy loads,
Lay down your burdens, find rest for your souls,
Cause my yoke is easy and my burden is kind,
I'll take yours upon me and you can take mine."
-Thrice

anonnymouse
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Well, it's been a while, the

Well, it's been a while, the trail has gotten old. Time to get things up to date.

A large portion of my lack of posting has been down to my wife's unwillingness to leave me alone around a computer anymore. If I am on late in the evening she will repeatedly urge me to come to bed or else sit on the sofa doing nothing but wait, sending the clear message that if I want to sit and write I have to do so under the pressure of her gaze. It's offputting, all the more so because I know she is really tired and is using guilt as a weapon against me. "I'm tired and you're keeping me up". I think perhaps she is afraid of some of the advice I have had from here and doesn't want me to get those sort of ideas into my head.

Anyway, last time I had shown her this website and told her I posted on it and chatted. She went on and read the postings and then tearfully apologised for not taking the "is OLGA for you ?" page seriously enough, but nothing more came of that.

She started actively avoiding playing on the game whilst I was up or around and stopped spending any money and did more family things, though sometimes I could tell her heart wasn't in it. She began playing early in the morning for brief stints and whilst I was at work in the day. She also started resetting the computer and therefore wiping the data that would show how long she had been playing for. Skype moved over almost exclusively onto her phone which became grafted to her hand and followed her to bed, into the toilet or shower and everywhere else she went. It was constantly buzzing and I had to ask her to set it on don't disturb at bedtime as it would wake me up buzzing at all hours of the night.

Everyday life had the sheen of improvement for a long time. I completed our accounts package and we began planning the year ahead to get out of the bad financial position she had got us into and prepare for two of the childrens birthdays in february, complete with fantastic birthday parties. We worked together and evony did not intrude much for a good month or so. I knew it was still going on but out of sight out of mind.

Then at the start of february I had to start building my daughter's vanity cabinet for her birthday. It was a very big project done with no budget in the evenings once the kids were in bed so it took a lot of time. I was out in my shed working till 11 or 12 at night almost every night for 2 weeks. It was the perfect excuse for her to play more without upsetting me. There was always a film playing on the browser and when I ccame in the game quickly dissapeared but as I repeatedly had no reaction to seeing the game window it came out more and more.

After that it started to happen again in the evenings after tea. She would sit at the computer and "watch soaps", which required lots of typing and clicking of mouse. I got the kids off to bed and there she remained all night at the computer again. Now it is almost back to the way it was before. The only thing that was really any different other than the increased secrecy was the lack of spending money.

When we changed the accounts we switched to cash and agreed a tenner a week for each other to spend on whatever we wanted, no questions asked. I assumed this would get spent on the game but to my surprise it was saved toward clothing and some used as a treat for the family. This was a marked improvement as money had been one of the more pressing concerns. Now that we were working together at the accounts on a weekend and deciding on expenditures together our finances were slowly climbing back up even despite the birthdays.

Then she started updating the accounts midweek whilst I was at work, cutting me out of the loop bit by bit and taking it over again. She never did get round to showing me the passwords to our accounts. Now even the password I did know to Paypal has suddenly changed, and money is pouring out of our bank and into the game again, but not from her pocketmoney, she gets to have that too. And now things are pretty much exactly as they were before, only neither of us trusts the other anymore.

I still love her. Fully half the days are good days. Either one or both of us will be in a good mood and life seems almost normal. We will play together as a family, hold hands when we walk and talk about things as friends like we used to do. We have been making love occasionally too which for us is no small thing.So to say it is all doom and gloom seems wrong. I looked back over my posts tonight and realised I never mentioned the other half of our lives where the game does not enter and things are fairly good between us. And sometimes it is. But there is no trust there anymore, for either of us I think, so the good times inevitably do not last and the emotional rollercoaster continues it's unpredictable course.

But several things have happened which have helped me to clarify things a bit in my head.

The book "The Addictive Personality" finally came from the library and I sat and read it twice. That shed a little light on some things, like why despite us making love I don't feel much intimacy occuring. It explained how addicts confuse intimacy for intensity which made a lot of sense.

I discovered I wasn't the only one suffering these kinds of problems in my area. Although it wasn't someone I could talk to often or in great depth it was still an encouraging contact.

My daughter wrote a short story for her school competition entitled "I Have An Evil Mother" and read it to me in her bedroom one night before bed. It was largely made up from other examples of bad parenting in films she had seen but it included a description of how the mother would ignore the children when they got home from school and keep playing on the computer, then, just before dad got home her phone alarm would go off and she would jump up and start cleaning and making tea and suddenly berating the children for the mess they had been making over the last two unsupervised hours. There was more of relevance but I didn't hear it and had to struggle to fight back a tear and congratulate my daughter on her masterful piece of fiction. Thankfully she wrote another one for the competition and that one never saw the light of day, but it has stayed with me. Whenever I remember it it gives me a perspective of what is happening every day that I never get to see.

I have started to recognize symptoms of acute anxiety in myself whenever I have to deal with anything related to the game which has made me realise that I really need to so a cousellor for guidance. I contacted one several weeks ago but she was going out of the country on sabattical for an extended period and had no-one available to replace her in the meantime so for the moment no help is forthcoming.

I keep trying to change the focus back onto me, doing things with a friend or remaining active around the house but I only succeed in short bursts before falling back into the same old routines of negativity and pessimism that comes to me so naturally

. So. Yeah. It's taken me 3 months to get my way back to where I was before. Only now I'm much wearier than before.

exazzy
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I was wondering what had

I was wondering what had happened to you! But this sounds like a terrible update and it makes me feel sad. Glad you're back for support but really sad that her addiction and your situation is so dire.

Did you show her your daughter's 'fiction'? I imagine that would be very powerful stuff. If not, how come?

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

drgz
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Welcome back mouse. Glad you

Welcome back mouse. Glad you came back to share your experience with us dosnt seem like many spouses stick around here. If you read my blog or post in the member section you will see a lot of similar stories. I feel for you and and sympathize with you.

I too wonder what to do and have been trying to figure it out. I like allerseelen post on your first page I think it is right on. I have kids also so it makes it even harder. I wonder would she be better or the same if we seperate, would she continue to ignore them and stay on the game or does she do it because I am there. My kids like yours are cathing on and maybe you should give her that story your daughter wrote or leave it out where she can find it. I think it would be a very powerful message, it would be for me anyways but I'm not addicted either. Stay strong and keep coming back lots of good support here.

Melissa Evermore
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Hey mouse. Sorry for how

Hey mouse. Sorry for how things are going.

As drgz said, there has been a lot of conversation on the anon members boards lately from people going through really similar stuff to you. I'd urge you to read and join in.

Also, I think you should ask yourself why you are sitting back and allowing her to run the finances, take what she wants and fail to give you passwords etc. I understand how tired and defeated you are feeling, but I was in a similar position not too long ago where my partner was dancing all over me, all he did was play his game while i struggled to keep the household going...I was paying for all of the rent and household expenses and yet he would still ask me for money for his game or else he would just take my credit card when I was sleeping...

I'd urge you to stick around and get involved in the anon discussions, it's been a lot of tough love lately and a lot of dealing with codependance but it's helped me a lot and as drgz said, we need more spouses-of-gamers to get involved and stick around.

Also, don't forget the anon meeting on friday night, I'm not sure of the time as I'm in a different timezone but I think it's 9pm pdt, hopefully someone will be helpful and correct me if I'm wrong.

troubled_fish
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" I have started to

" I have started to recognize symptoms of acute anxiety in myself whenever I have to deal with anything related to the game which has made me realise that I really need to so a cousellor for guidance"

This sounds like the phobic reaction I dealt/am dealing with myself. In my case, it was the thought "omg who is she talking to - why is she always on the game - etc etc" The phobia developed in me because it's easier to avoid situations that trigger anxiety - such as hearing my wife typing on her keyboard - than face them. But you've got to, or the phobia will remain. I'm overcoming that phobia by inching closer and closer to the source of the phobia - first keeping the door open, then hanging out in the adjacent room, finally sitting in the same room.

And Mel's right - there are a bunch of people with addicted spouses - Mel and drgz and myself to name a few - who could use your input and experiences.

lilac
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Wow mouse I am sorry about

Wow mouse I am sorry about all of this.

I deserve my plate at the table...
I don't need two plates (that's ego)
But I will not settle for crumbs and scraps off the table!

anonnymouse
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Well, I finally got hold of

Well, I finally got hold of a copy of co-dependent no more so we'll see where that leads, but I have high hopes it may be beneficial for me.

Oh, and Istarted on a sanctuary for me yesterday. I built acomputer desk up in our bedroom so I can now have my own time to type whenever I want. This is only a small thing but it seems like step in the right direction.

So hopefully I will soon be able to post more actively and maybe even attend a meet.

Melissa Evermore
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Fantastic steps Mouse. The

Fantastic steps Mouse. The book is excellent, and creating my own private sanctuary was extremely beneficial to me. I don't think it is "only a small thing", I think it's the beginning of a really wonderful journey for you.

I can't remember where I read this, but it was in some of the coda literature I think- that unlike quitting other addictions which require a lot of sacrifice and discomfort before life starts to improve, freeing yourself from codependance is actually liberating and fun, once you start to gain momentum. It's certainly been true in my experience.

Keep us posted :-)

anonnymouse
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Well, I only managed to get

Well, I only managed to get Codependent No More as an audio book but it has meant I can listen to it whilst I work and I have listened to it twice in the last two days. It does not speak strongly to me on all fronts in terms of how I deal with my life and situation but there are definately some things in there that I DO identify with. I am a little codependent I am certain, but my wife seems to fit the criteria FAR better and in many more ways.

Is it normal, I wonder for an addict to also be a historical codependent before they became an addict?

And yes, I did catch what Melody Beatie said about two codependants living together and the havoc that could wreak.

But regardless of how much or little I do the things a codependant should do, the suggestions for getting back to a healthy state of being are great, and the section on dealing with anger really spoke strongly to me. I am going to get a paper copy of the book and a notepad and start doing the work properly, taking the time to think carefully about the questions posed and see if there are things within me that I can't /don't want to see.

My thanks to those who repeatedly suggested this was the book I needed, your repeated urging was the reason I finally went in search of it and I am so glad I did.

Hopefully my following posts will have a change in focus, back onto me and what I CAN do.

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