i am stuck

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planner
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i am stuck

hi everyone, i would like to share with you the problem i have with step two. i believe in god but the way i understand him doesn't qualify him to be my helping hp

i think that, the god has already helped the creature called human and gave him the brain to think and the heart to love. Human has the power to think, judge and act. human is the one who is doing good and bad things, human is the killer of his own creatures, he make wars and kill children. all of these victims have asked somehow the god to help them. If god role is it interfere with human decisions, none of such severe violence would have happened to them ! If good people used their brains and hearts that god gave to them none of those things would have happened. humans bad activities are spread because good people care only about themselves. they are blamed of not working together and preventing those from their own species to do what they did to children.

so my problem is i believe in god and he is the most powerful thing i can imagine but he is not going to help me with my current addiction problem as he already gave me the brain and heart to help myself (so i am kind of in the middle of closed loop. i have a hp but it wont help me). I wether have to find another higher power which is difficult for a god believer or change the way i understand god which something is not easy and might take years. i wish you can give me some advices !

"Recovery is not about dealing with gaming. Recovery is about dealing with Life"

Wildstarwidow
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Hi planner I too struggle

Hi planner

I too struggle with the 'God' element of the 12 steps. I follow the 12 steps for agnostics. In this version step 2 reads as:

Came to believe and accept that we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.

And step 3 is then:

Made a decision to entrust our will and our lives to the care of the collective wisdom and resources of those who have searched before us.

Search '12 steps for agnostics'. I found the one for the AA group in San Franscisco Bay. The most religious it gets is referring to 'spiritual' awareness in step 11.

Hope this helps.

Tommi
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Hi Planner, Your question is

Hi Planner,

Your question is a good one. It has perplexed many people and has been the subject of many theological debates. It is about self-will and determinism.

Here is the way I see it. God in his omnipotence gave mankind the gift of self-will. It is a very precious gift because it gives us the power to achieve the unimaginable. Many people have used this gift to allow them to do great things and to help many people.

But like most things in life there is a dark side to this choice. And the consequences of this dark side is the pain and violence on others of what you write, and what troubles you.

What you must be aware of in the context of step 2 is that God has given you the power to change your own life, if you wish to. But this takes an act of Faith.

That is how I see it.

Olga/non member since Dec. 2008 Check out my latest video on Gaming Addiction and public awareness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6JZLnQ29o

Lisa3333
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Hi Planner!  I totally

Hi Planner! I totally relate to where you are with having a belief in a Higher Power or in a God or a Creator versus tapping into to It/believing It could possibly help me or be concerned with my day to day problems. Some of this comes from my upbringing where my parents expected me to handle my own problems and made me feel I was being selfish if I asked for or needed help. For me, I've found that by envisioning my Higher Power as positive energy/life force and that I'm plugging into it to get power the same way I'd plug a cord into a wall that that has worked. I envision when I don't do that that I'm running on battery power, my power, and it gives me a practical visual of why that doesn't work. The other thing I know is that faith is belief in things unseen and that step 2 asks me to be willing to believe and that willingness is enough to make me work the rest of the steps which when I do and get to step 12 it's only then that I have had the "spiritual awakening" and can see how my Higher Power has actually worked in my life. I can easily get stuck too as they say in analysis and paralysis. I like how the big book of AA refers to Higher Power. It says:

"Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this power? Well, that's exactly what this book is about. It's main object is to enable you to find a power greater than yourself which will solve your problem." pg 45

You have taken step 2 from what I can tell by your share. You have a willingness to believe there is something more powerful than just you. You don't need anymore than that willingness. Just move forward now.

Hugs, Lisa Video game free since 4/17/2014

Reddog
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Hi planner, First part of

Hi planner,

First part of what you said is an age old question everyone ask themselves I know I have many times. Those with faith know God also gave us free will to make our own decisions good or bad. He knew we would make bad decisions (sins) and sent his son to teach and so we may be forgiven for our sins. What we perceive to be bad things are his divine will not always understandable by us but I believe there is a purpose.

I completely understand where you are coming from though. When I first began recovery I felt the exact same as you. It's a long story but I had lost my faith in God so seeing him as a HP was not an option for me. Instead I thought of the fellowship here as my HP. It is exactly what an HP is a higher power than myself. Not one person but all that are in the fellowship together formed this HP. With the fellowships help (HP) I could recover.

Since then during recovery I have however started working on my relationship with God. I see now that my addiction and past resentments were a barrier between my relationship with God. Just like it was a barrier between many of my other relationships. I whole heartedly feel it was divine intervention that brought me to quitting and in turn finding this fellowship that has allowed me to continue to work on my recovery. So in a way the fellowship and God are still my HP. A relationship with God is of course not mandatory for recovery as said above an HP can be defined by many things. I have noticed though including myself a high number of recovering addicts believe they are Agnostic of Atheist. I wonder if that is more than a coincidence. Possible it is related to detrimental effects to relationships both physical and spiritual addiction causes as was the case with me.

"Yesterday is History, Tomorrow a Mystery, Today is a Gift, Thats why it's called the Present"

EvelynRose
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Hi Planner, you are not

Hi Planner, you are not alone! And thank you Wildstarwidow for bringing to light the agnostic version of the 12 steps (that's exactly what I was looking for personally!)

Planner, I hope you don't feel discouraged by others sharing stories that make it seem you can only reach the ultimate "state" by including a God. Your spirituality is a personal journey, and many people are spiritual without including beliefs in a God that controls everything. This is your journey, and you are doing this for your own recovery. From this tough journey (but great decision) that you are going through, you will find it beneifts, not only you, but those around you, and your future relaionships.

Personally, I find I have to stay away from advice from my Christian friends and family, because they believe that we are sinners, and if I accept "Jesus" or "God", then all will "fix" itself...and that is no help to me. I beleive we are all good, and leaning on something unproven for lasting results is asking to fail by not solving the actual problem (IMO). So I choose to go about it interpreting the spiritual part of life in a way that makes sense to me, and also finding secular sources, or athiest/agnostic support online.

So, I hope you aren't turned away from certain steps in recovery just because others went about it a different way. Life is yours to interpret how you wish, and I hope you find knowledge and personal growth in this process.

planner
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Thanks everyone for your

Thanks everyone for your replies. i read twice what u have suggested and all your shares helped me in someway. i personally believe in We more than i. We means love, care and help and i admit that i am weak in dealing with gaming addiction and i need help. this fellowship is helping me a lot. my future goal which is built on helping others makes my days pass without strong urges. i will try now to read again step 2 one more time and move forward to next step.

thanks

"Recovery is not about dealing with gaming. Recovery is about dealing with Life"

Outofmans
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Very interesting thread,

Very interesting thread, thanks everyone. I also struggle with the use of the use of the term "God" in the 12 steps and appreciate the insight here.

Today is the first day of the rest of your REAL life.

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