The truth behind game companies

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Norski
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The truth behind game companies

WARNING, GAME NAMES MENTIONED!

So here it goes. Through my work I`ve atended several conferences. I got inn touch with a founder of funcom, a norwegian game develop company on one of these conferences. And through him I`ve been able to meet and e-mail with people that works within game developing companies. I`d like to share a few of the things I`ve been told by people inn the different companies as it shows and explains alot.

The one from Funcom is a educated shrink, and he used that inn his work with games.

qoute: "you can make a videogame as addictive as you want, sadly we didnt make our game age of conan addictive enough because our moral wouldnt let us make a game that we knew would ruin peoples life. As a result our biggest mmo title was a major flop. It didnt have the most addictive implementations that all of the currently popular mmo games have. thats why I quit and became a full time shrink, to help those addicted to games instead of trying to make games that arent addictive"

This was a shock, how he who made a mmo that sold millions of copies the first month after launch could say this. But its true, many people bought the game and played it, but since it wasnt addictive enough they didnt continue playing it and turned to other games to get their "fix".

Through this person inn funcom I got the e-mail adress of a employee inn Riot (creators of league of legends). I contacted him and after sending a few mails back and forth where I explain my work and what I do he told me a few things.

qoute: "We have a designated staff of shrinks that finds rewards and triggers to implement into the design of champions. We also has a team dedicated to setting the prices of riot points (points you buy for money to unlock inn game costumes) inn such a way that you can never reach 0 points and spend all of it. That way people will keep spending money because they feel like that small amount of points that is left is wasted if they dont get to spend them"

So basicly they are making it impossible to spend all the points you buy for real money, that way making them feel like its a waste if they dont buy more points to try and spend it all. ****s....

And the last one I talked recently was a employee of blizzard, creators of World of warcraft. He had a son who strugled with gaming addiction but he couldnt get help for him. He was frustrated because no one took him seriously, also he was poor and if he asked for help any longer or tried to claim that video game addiction was a thing he would be unemployed and not able to pay the rent for his house or get enough food and clothes for his family.

qoute: "world of warcraft at first was just meant to be a entertaining game where you have to work hard to get rewards buildt into the game. Through the years theyve made it easier and easier to get rewards of some kind because the more rewards people get the more addicted they become. Anything you do you get a reward for doing, that way it triggers the same addiction that a gambler has when he gambles with money. You keep getting that fast paced constant rewards all the time."

This is just..... insane..... I cant put words to what this makes me feel. The thing is video games itself is not dangerous, BUT they can be if they are fast paces games made with lots of rewards that keeps triggering your brain inn such a way that you get addicted! Video games that isnt addicting will most likely flop, because people doesnt get hoocked enough to keep playing them hours and hours. So the more popular a game is, the more addictive it is!!

Before ending this wall of text I want to add, 2 norwegian gamestop (store that sell video games mainly) employees got fired for not wanting to sell mmo games to a 6 year old and a 8 year old kid! They did not have their mother with them and no written permission to buy the games they tried buying. So the employees denied selling it to them. Result is that they got fired for not selling a game that the store would have made money of.

The more I learn about video games and the people behind them, the more I understand how insane it is. Its all about money. They keep their motives and critical facts they know about video games to themselfes just for more effin money.

How does one do something about it? because of the mentallity of society I cant use what these people have told me because if I did they would deny it. They are scared for their family, their jobb, and their own life.

I will keep working with the organisation for now. But all I can do is to try and help the victims of video game addiction. I can not do anything about the source of the problem so.....

God help us all, society as we know it is going down the drain.

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Norski wrote: God help us
Norski wrote:

God help us all, society as we know it is going down the drain.

True.

Still, I recommend continuing to gather research and information so that you can eventually use it. Any information is useful information and can in-fact provide reference for what you are searching for.

Keep at it. This is a big beast were dealing with and will take a long time to stop.

Prayer for the Day: Higher Power, help me to be realistic about the challenge I'm facing and to take good care of myself. If you need help PM me! I will gladly offer you whatever aid I can.

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Thanks Norski, Mind

Thanks Norski,

Mind boggling. Thank you for all the work you do. It is so important. And my son is still yelling at me that gaming addiction does not exist. That I have a serious delusion that he has a problem. This is indeed a beast, Sheesh. And Norski, I fear too that it may be the downfall of society as we know it. It has ruined my family.

"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.

Norski
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witsendmom wrote: Thanks
witsendmom wrote:

Thanks Norski,

Mind boggling. Thank you for all the work you do. It is so important. And my son is still yelling at me that gaming addiction does not exist. That I have a serious delusion that he has a problem. This is indeed a beast, Sheesh. And Norski, I fear too that it may be the downfall of society as we know it. It has ruined my family.

Yours, and many many others. Thank god mine is still there for me suporting me even after what I put them through.

It hurts me to think about all the people having problems because of this and I cant do anything to help.

But I wont give upp, I wont give upp until the day I`m dead and burried, NEVER. I have to try and do my best. Even if what I do doesnt mather, I cant sit on my ass knowing this is going on and do nothing.

I dont mind video games, its ok for them to exist. But the addicting ones, oh god I`d do alot to remove them from the surface of earth.

As I said, its not the game that is addicting, its the hidden mechanics.

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I wish I could say I'm

I wish I could say I'm surprised. I guess. But I'm not at all surprised.

Cigarette companies manufacture cigarettes with large amounts of nicotiene so that they will be as addictive as possible. Of course game companies do it. There are research papers published telling what kinds of characteristics you need to put into games to make them most addictive. And if you want your product to be at the top of the marketplace, you'll do it. So the most successful companies are the ones that do it.

It's an inevitable result of the free market. Casinos say they want people to "game responsibly" (it's not gaming, you liars, it's gambling), beer companies say they want people to "drink responsibly." Hogwash. The purpose of a company is to make money for the stockholders and provide jobs for the employees, and so their goal is to make money. Any actions taken that seem otherwise are done so that they minimize liability, i.e., so that they make more money.

The free market is the most efficient economic system, but this is the dark underbelly. Marketing involves getting people to choose your product and keep choosing it.

What helped us as a society to turn the corner on smoking was:

1. High-profile hugely damaging lawsuits against cigarette companies.

2. A mandatory health and safety warning on every package.

3. TV ads outlawed.

4. Relentless news and education campaigns about the dangers.

It only took about 50 years to cut the smoking rates by about a half.

It will be the same with gaming. The companies need to be sued for malfeasonce, wrongful death and whatever else the addictive crap they put out is causing, the health community must warn the public, preferably with mandatory labeling on every box, and those who know must publicly acvocate against the dangers. Kudos to the folks who are doing that.

Right now I'm trying to recover. Hopefully in the future I can help in other ways, too. First things first.

I am a recovering computer game and gambling addict. My recovery birthday: On May 6, 2012 I quit games and began working a program of recovery through OLGA No computer games or slot games for me since December 12, 2012. No solitaire games with real cards since June 2013.

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This is valuable insight and

This is valuable insight and data.

Andrew Doan MD PhD

My Videos: Internet gaming disorder is real & my story 

*The views expressed are of the author's and do not necessarily reflect the official policy of the U.S. Navy or Department of Defense.

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None of this is surprising.

None of this is surprising. dan939's comparison with cigarette companies is exactly right. The same holds for alcohol. And fast food. And reality TV.

Recovery is about yourself, about *your* addiction and life coping mechanisms. Fighting the big fight with gaming companies is your idea of therapy, good for you. But that does not mean that you will have an easier time staying away from games or that video games will disappear from the planet. More information about gaming addiction is absolutely better. I fully agree that kids should be protected from violent content, that is what ratings are for. And companies should adhere to the law.

Perhaps a man who is worthy of the name should put aside this question of how long he will live ..., and turn his attention to this instead, to how he can live the best life possible in the time that is granted to him
Marcus Aurelius

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Norski, thanks for the

Norski, thanks for the information. Not at all a suprise to me at this point (capitalism rules all!). The difference with gaming is that there is not a general knowledge that it IS truly addictive, and can ruin lives live any other addiction. We shelter our kids and keep them away from alcohol and drugs. We watch carefully for any outside influence that may introduce them to alcohol and drugs. We educate them about the dangers of addictions to alcohol and drugs. Then we buy them, or allow them to download, these horrible games because we don't know any better. I think if the general public really knew how much work goes into making these games addictive, and how truly awful the results of gaming addiction can be, that there would be a backlash against video games and allowing an underage child to play certain games. There should be a stigma against introducing your child to these things, much as you would not introduce them to pot. (Even though I don't think it is that harmful for most people, and it soon will be legal in our state). Their brains and morals and lives are not fully formed, and they can't withstand the onslaught of these addictive tactics.

"But if I ran the zoo," / Said young Gerald McGrew, "I'd make a few changes. / That's just what I'd do..."
Dr. Seuss

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Unforunately, I'm with Dan

Unforunately, I'm with Dan here: not surprised.

Alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, TV the list of addictive mainstream products is not too long, but definitely there.

Its unfortunate, but it also doesn't really affect my ongoing recovery, though I could see how bringing awareness to the idea could bring many people to realize that they might have a problem.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.

Last game played: April 24th 2014

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Thank you for posting this

Thank you for posting this Norski, however i can't avoid to feel sick for the coldness with that this people act. Disgusting.

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I've been thinking about

I've been thinking about this, and wondering--why hasn't anyone sued the video game industry? By now it seems there have been enough lives ruined, enought parents watching their kids spiral downward, a few outrageous events, that someone would have thought of that. The possible upside is that media attention might help educate people about what game designers are doing. I guess the downside is that it would get really expensive quickly fighting such a huge monster. Has anyone heard of any suits of this sort?

"But if I ran the zoo," / Said young Gerald McGrew, "I'd make a few changes. / That's just what I'd do..."
Dr. Seuss

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I've never heard of any, but

I've never heard of any, but it is an interesting thought. If I play devil's advocate, I'd put it off on people's lack of self control. It makes me think of the McDonald's lawsuits over people being unhealthy. They lost, if i remember correctly. Then again, some have fought tobacco companies and won. Maybe an alternative to a lawsuit would be awareness campaigns. There is absolutely no awareness about these games...I worry so much about children and young people who are growing up playing.

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goincrazy wrote: I've been
goincrazy wrote:

I've been thinking about this, and wondering--why hasn't anyone sued the video game industry? By now it seems there have been enough lives ruined, enought parents watching their kids spiral downward, a few outrageous events, that someone would have thought of that. The possible upside is that media attention might help educate people about what game designers are doing. I guess the downside is that it would get really expensive quickly fighting such a huge monster. Has anyone heard of any suits of this sort?

Look at this: http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/18/parents-suing-blizzard-for-world-of-warcraft-addiction/

Andrew Doan MD PhD

My Videos: Internet gaming disorder is real & my story 

*The views expressed are of the author's and do not necessarily reflect the official policy of the U.S. Navy or Department of Defense.

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Well apparently it has been

Well apparently it has been tried, that one, and a guy in August 2010. The gamers just go nuts in the comments on these cases. But I would still like to see some kind of warning label on them, something to the effect that they may cause addictive behavior in some people, and that sudden withdrawal can result in severe rage, depression, or violent actions. That would certainly get the attention of parents!

"But if I ran the zoo," / Said young Gerald McGrew, "I'd make a few changes. / That's just what I'd do..."
Dr. Seuss

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Such comments will never be

Such comments will never be voluntarily put on a box, because it is tantamount to an admission of liability for the consequences of the severe rage, depression or violent actions. They will never do it unless they are forced to do it. They will never admit that they are responsible for the decisions they make to create the most addictive games possible. This will have to be determined by the courts, including the court of public opinion, and the Surgeon General. Cigarette companies still won't admit their product is addictive, let alone admit that they work hard to make it so. It's been a fight every step of the way with them. The only difference here is that the gamers themselves will also be against it. Best wishes to everyone who takes this on in a large or small way. Right now my way is just to recover and help others recover, which is hard enough for me at this point. Kudos to those who are doing various other things as well.

I am a recovering computer game and gambling addict. My recovery birthday: On May 6, 2012 I quit games and began working a program of recovery through OLGA No computer games or slot games for me since December 12, 2012. No solitaire games with real cards since June 2013.

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This is a really valuable

This is a really valuable insight, but like dan, I'm not surprised. Those companies know they've dug into a gold mine and now they're going to see how deep it goes.

What's troubling me though is, that this is only the beginning. With technology advancing at it's current pace, we'll have a lot more ahead of us. Think about neural interfaces, realistic 3D-projectors, sex robots, augmented reality. All of that is under heavy development (I come from the tech world, trust me on it). The question is, whether we as a society will see the dangers that lie ahead or not and just let them happen without any boundaries. I've learned a valuable lesson with my SL addiction, but who knows what comes next that I find interesting at first and that drags me into it.

January 13th 2013. The day I finally may have come to my senses.

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Sadly the parallels to

Sadly the parallels to smoking and drinking are useful in this regard.

The tide is not really going to turn until there is widespread awareness of the dangers involved in gaming addiction. Smoking took 50 years from the time awareness of dangers began to be proved. And with alcohol the dangers of abuse are everywhere and when was the last time you saw a warning on a bottle of whisky?

I am not saying give up the fight, because every victory will be a small step in the war which must be won. But it would be misleading to believe changes will come quickly.

Olga/non member since Dec. 2008 Check out my latest video on Gaming Addiction and public awareness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6JZLnQ29o

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dan939 wrote: Such comments
dan939 wrote:

Such comments will never be voluntarily put on a box, because it is tantamount to an admission of liability for the consequences of the severe rage, depression or violent actions. They will never do it unless they are forced to do it.

_source_ wrote:

What's troubling me though is, that this is only the beginning. With technology advancing at it's current pace, we'll have a lot more ahead of us. Think about neural interfaces, realistic 3D-projectors, sex robots, augmented reality. All of that is under heavy development (I come from the tech world, trust me on it).

Tommi wrote:

Sadly the parallels to smoking and drinking are useful in this regard.

The tide is not really going to turn until there is widespread awareness of the dangers involved in gaming addiction. Smoking took 50 years from the time awareness of dangers began to be proved. And with alcohol the dangers of abuse are everywhere and when was the last time you saw a warning on a bottle of whisky?

I am not saying give up the fight, because every victory will be a small step in the war which must be won. But it would be misleading to believe changes will come quickly.

All valid points above!

This is the truth and facts about this addiction.

1 in 11 kids are addicted to gaming ages 8 to 18 (9% addiction rate). That's 3 million kids in the US.Cost of rehab is $20,000/monthPotentially, this is a $720 BILLION annual cost to society and the gaming companies.When money is involved, expect a fight.The $25 BILLION dollar gaming industry cannot afford to pay even 10% of the $720 BILLION bill for gaming addiction rehab.

Andrew Doan MD PhD

My Videos: Internet gaming disorder is real & my story 

*The views expressed are of the author's and do not necessarily reflect the official policy of the U.S. Navy or Department of Defense.

Norski
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Thank you for all this

Thank you for all this feedback and interesting opinions.

There are a few points you didnt catch from what I originally posted.

Video games arent dangerous unless the people designing them implements addicting mechanics. Many games dies out or go by un-noticed, because they arent addicting enough compared to the worse games. By this logic we can safely say that ALL popular games are addicting, and the more people playing them the more addicting they are.

Would you call guitar hero addicting? Now if you go online with it and start competing for having the most score together with others or alone, thats a addicting factor. I`m not saying one cant get addicted but by looking at the mechanics and how much time people spend on it compared to other games we can safely say its not dangerously addicting. Addicting yeah sure, all games are, but I dare say more people are dangerously addicted to soda, candy or even cofee and sugar then people that are addicted to games like guitar hero or singstar.

Again its not the games that are dangerous, its the addicting mechanics. Lets say if we removed money from gambling, would a gambling addict still be addicted to playing poker? If we remove all money value from the chips and play for fun or points. Would he still even care if he wins or looses? Would he still get a kick from it? For most gamblers the game stops beeing interesting the moment money arent involved anymore, hence its the money aspect that makes him addicted NOT THE GAME HE PLAYS INN IT SELF.

Now applying same logic to online games would they still be addicting if we removed lvling, removed the online aspect, removed achievments, points, pvp, removed everything and just had the core of the game as a offline singleplayer game. How many people would still be addicted to it after having all of this removed? One can only imagine, it would be extremely interesting to try it out sometime with a group of addicts that still havent been able to quit. To give them the same game without any of the mechanics that can make it addicting. My guess is they would quickly loose interest and turn it of because the game wouldnt give them the "kick" they want anymore.

On a other note, I`m not out to go to war against the gaming companies. I`m not out to shut them down and remove games forever. I`m not using this voulenteer work as treatment. Its not a way to treat myself.

What I want, is like with alcohol and tobacco, labels and law enforced age limits. So people can choose themself when they are 16-18 if they want to play those games with the addicting label on them. This is what I want, making people aware and capable to make their own desisions. So that kids aged below 16-18 that arent matured enough to understand what addiction are and the dangers dont have to be lured into a addicting game. It wouldnt make gaming addiction go away but it would make most of it go away I`m sure. Let people make their own choices based on what they know, not getting tricked into a life ruining addiction and getting told its not a addiction, thats the reason why its so many video game addicts and so difficult to get help. "its just a game" after all..... yeah right.

My recovery has nothing to do with my work, if anything I tire myself out at times setting back my recovery abit. But its a sacrifise I accept, its more important trying to change the way society thinks about video games then my own recovery. Yes it really is. To prevent and help so many other smart, clever, kind and great people with gaming addiction.

Wall of text lol, even here amongst fellow addicts I cant agree. It seems I cant fully agree with anyone ever, you might even call me arrogant xD

But discussing it is healthy, learning and listening to others are healthy. And even if it doesnt seem like it I`ve taken everything youve wrote here to heart. I take everything to heart and try to put it into my way of seeing things to try and see the logic. Some times I even change my views, but the more I read, the more I know, the more sure I get about my opinions beeing correct and even more difficult is it for others to convince me that I`m wrong.

Sorry, not trying to be mean :)

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And then there are game

And then there are game companies who put "TOTALLY ADDICTING" on the box because they know that kids will want it now. "Addicting" now means enjoyable and fun for hours and hours.

What did they say once about circuses? A sucker born every minute.

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Patria wrote: And then
Patria wrote:

And then there are game companies who put "TOTALLY ADDICTING" on the box because they know that kids will want it now. "Addicting" now means enjoyable and fun for hours and hours.

What did they say once about circuses? A sucker born every minute.

Hence law enforced age limits..... I know kids and teenagers would see it as a way to rebel against their parents. But they allready are. We have ALOT of kids and teenagers spending 12+ hours a day on gaming not beeing addicted but doing it just to **** of their parents. Its allready a thing. Having "warning addicting" labeled wont do it worse, nothing can do it worse then it allready is......

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Yes, there are law enforced

Yes, there are law enforced age limits. However, none of that works.

So, I think, IMHO, that information and getting the word out there works better than anything. Laws are ineffective and create more problems than the original problem (see Ken Burn's documentary on Prohibition). But if more people learn about the inherent dangers in gaming, maybe we will all take notice and make better informed choices.

I'm all for educating people over everything. An informed society is a healthy one.

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Norski wrote: Patria
Norski wrote:
Patria wrote:

And then there are game companies who put "TOTALLY ADDICTING" on the box because they know that kids will want it now. "Addicting" now means enjoyable and fun for hours and hours.

What did they say once about circuses? A sucker born every minute.

Hence law enforced age limits..... I know kids and teenagers would see it as a way to rebel against their parents. But they allready are. We have ALOT of kids and teenagers spending 12+ hours a day on gaming not beeing addicted but doing it just to **** of their parents. Its allready a thing. Having "warning addicting" labeled wont do it worse, nothing can do it worse then it allready is......

Good luck my friend. It's a ALL or NONE issue here, i.e. placing labels by force or lawsuit vs doing nothing. The gaming companies got the California law to ban sale of mature games to minors over-turned.

"Like the protected books, plays and movies that preceded them, video games communicate ideas -- and even social messages -- through many familiar literary devices (such as characters, dialogue, plot, and music) and through features distinctive to the medium (such as the player's interaction with the virtual world)," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the Supreme Court on Monday, in a case that arose from a California effort to ban the sale of violent video games to minors. "That suffices to confer First Amendment protection."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/arts/video-games/what-supreme-court-ruling-on-video-games-means.html?_r=0

It's going to take:

1) To show 1 in 11 kids are addicted to video games.

2) Gaming companies add addictive elements knowingly; thus, this is DIGITAL NICOTINE.

3) Class Action Lawsuits

Like I said, gaming companies will NEVER allow labeling, or in the case of California, ban the sale of mature games to minors, because doing so admits liability and fault. This will go down like the cigarette companies because the gaming industry has already faught the laws you wish for. Study the ban of mature video games to minors in California. It was a California law that got over-turned at the Supreme Court level!

Andrew Doan MD PhD

My Videos: Internet gaming disorder is real & my story 

*The views expressed are of the author's and do not necessarily reflect the official policy of the U.S. Navy or Department of Defense.

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Yes, I agree knowledge is

Yes, I agree knowledge is the most poweful weapon. Once parents truly understand how devastating gaming addiction is, they will (if they deserve the label "parent") remove, or put the brakes on, gaming. I cringe to think about the discussions that me and my husband had--"well at least he is socializing a little" (on MORPGs). "We at least know what he is doing, and that he is safe" (going to a party and leaving him gaming). "Hey, he's not looking at porn" (too addicted to bother). OMG--we just didn't KNOW! If kids are protected from this, like we would with alcohol, then when they are 18, they will have some knowledge and defenses, and a strong self-esteem, so they can make the right choices for themselves (hopefully). That, I think, would be the benefits of lawsuits, or labeling--educating parents to help them set boundaries.

Norski--I think you are doing the right thing and really appreciate it. There is a spiritual aspect to addiction also, as I have been reading ("Thinking Simply About Addiction"). Having a higher purpose helps us get through the tough times, and you may have found that purpose.

"But if I ran the zoo," / Said young Gerald McGrew, "I'd make a few changes. / That's just what I'd do..."
Dr. Seuss

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Education is the key:

Education is the key: parents, kids, everyone.

Thank you Norski for stepping up to the plate and doing something about it all. Big hugs!

Norski
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I was about to write a wall

I was about to write a wall of text on how to get this to happen, and how it really will work and make a difference. But you have obviously given upp. Theres no reason for me to discuss this with you anymore. I`m not trying to be mean. But you see nothing but problems that cant be solved. A "war" if you want, that cant be won.

I aint quitting for anything. Nothing is impossible! Its just a challenge.

Compared to quitting gaming, this challenge is childs play.

And thanks for your suport, even if you think what I`m trying to acomplish is impossible you suport me. Thanks!

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Who is giving up? not

Who is giving up? not me!

Why not write that wall of text. Who is "you"? I hope not me, or us. We are interested!

Norski
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Ok, sry then. Its just

Ok, sry then. Its just people keep posting why it wont work. As if I didnt know. And I dont care. It will still work, belive me I got the way to make it work. Just give me time, might take 1 year or 10 years. But it will work given enough time.

Patria
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Did I say it won't work? I'm

Did I say it won't work?

I'm so confused. What won't work?

All I said was education is great and a good way to help change things.

Please post what you mean.

Norski
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Patria wrote: Laws are
Patria wrote:

Laws are ineffective and create more problems than the original problem (see Ken Burn's documentary on Prohibition). But if more people learn about the inherent dangers in gaming, maybe we will all take notice and make better informed choices.

I'm all for educating people over everything. An informed society is a healthy one.

That is what I`m talking about inn your case. Do you really think that people would care unless there was laws to regulate it? Only people that cares about gaming addiction are the ones affected by it. No one else.

And it will stay that way if we do what you say, only the people affected by gaming addiction will care. Why would the others care? They cant see a problem with doing something thats completely legal, and we dont even have enough proof that its a thing to convince them by proof, whatever proof we try to show them they laugh at.

Belive me most people dont care.

And they wont as long as its "only a game". We need those laws, we NEED those warning labels to help making those not affected inn some way directly or indirectly to realise its a thing.

My plan, is to "infiltrate" the gaming companies.

Atm as well as warning people about the dangers, I promote healthy gaming. Yeah, I promote gaming as a hobby. Because it has opened the doors to co-operating with game developers. And if I keep "promoting games" they will let me know to much for their own good.

I`ll spend months, years even just collecting everything theyve tell me and let me know. And when the time is right I turn on them using it all.

I`ve allready started doing it.

And how I can live with myself "promoting" games? I`ve never been able to help more people, learn them the dangers as well while talking to them. Since they see me as a dude beeing possitive to gaming, they open upp to me. And I can slowly and carefully tell them the dangers, how to get help, where to get help, and that if youre addicted you have to quit completely etc. inn between the lines of healthy gaming.

Everything is alowed inn war and love.

Only people aware of my true intentions are you here on olganon and mom. People underestimate me and what I`m willing to do to change things.

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

I`m not lying. I`m just not telling the whole truth, and the healthy gaming part is just a new way I`ve made to warn people of the dangers but at the same time seem possitive to gaming.

I`m saying the same things I`ve always said, just from a different angle.

Patria
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Norski, you do what you need

Norski, you do what you need to do and I wish you the best.

I'm just here to recover from my own bad bout of gaming and wish I'd known that gaming was another addiction waiting for me to happen.

/waving the white flag.

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Patria wrote: Norski, you
Patria wrote:

Norski, you do what you need to do and I wish you the best.

I'm just here to recover from my own bad bout of gaming and wish I'd known that gaming was another addiction waiting for me to happen.

/waving the white flag.

Its nothing personal against you or anyone else here

I`m just not going to quit without a fight. Nothing is impossible :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nDMRxgx3XU

Awesome lyrics, and so true ^^

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Norski wrote: My plan, is
Norski wrote:

My plan, is to "infiltrate" the gaming companies.

Atm as well as warning people about the dangers, I promote healthy gaming. Yeah, I promote gaming as a hobby. Because it has opened the doors to co-operating with game developers. And if I keep "promoting games" they will let me know to much for their own good.

I`ll spend months, years even just collecting everything theyve tell me and let me know. And when the time is right I turn on them using it all.

I`ve allready started doing it.

I'm more interested in hearing about your experiences Norski. How are you meeting with young people? Are you doing presentations in schools? When you say "infiltrate" what do you mean by that? Going to conventions?

I've considered going to school and getting my masters in counseling. I was in grad school before I started gaming.. But I've thought about changing my focus.

I think some of the resistance you've sensed has more to do with the fact that if one wants to prevent gaming addiction with kids... one has to reach the parents first. Parents honestly are not aware of how dangerous gaming can be. They think it's safer than drugs and alcohol.

I think a young person (you are 20ish?) who had a dream like your's should go to school, do research on addiction, and publish the results.

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Norski wrote: Atm as well
Norski wrote:

Atm as well as warning people about the dangers, I promote healthy gaming. Yeah, I promote gaming as a hobby. Because it has opened the doors to co-operating with game developers. And if I keep "promoting games" they will let me know to much for their own good.

...

I`m not lying. I`m just not telling the whole truth, and the healthy gaming part is just a new way I`ve made to warn people of the dangers but at the same time seem possitive to gaming.

Norski, it sounds like you are hanging around the places, people and things that got you addicted to gaming. I worry that all this may be an elaborate justification for you to start gaming again. "Healthy" gaming sounds like you think you could play "some" games but not others, when in my experience, the simplest way to quit something is just to quit. There are soft and hard drugs, but unless you give up *all* drugs, you will never be free.

If I am wrong, then I am sorry. I wish you well either way. You are always welcome here.

Perhaps a man who is worthy of the name should put aside this question of how long he will live ..., and turn his attention to this instead, to how he can live the best life possible in the time that is granted to him
Marcus Aurelius

Norski
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@kate1   I meet people

@kate1 I meet people everywhere, phonecalls, emails, when out traveling holding presentations for our organisation, when atending game development conferences etc.

Yes I`m doing presentations inn schools, but only for students 16 years +. Students younger then that cant understand my points. Drug abuse, suicide atempts, friends killing themself. Its not something you simply tell young teens/kids about.

When it comes to kids that are to young to understand what I`m talking about I`m targeting the parrents instead. Giving them information on the dangers, "symptoms" and where to get proper help.

By infiltrate I mean organising LANs, not atending but settings upp plans, and drop inn to tell my story and what role I had organising the LAN and promote healthy gaming. If anyone wants to talk to me they can meet me outside when I`m done with what I got to tell. Then I leave afterwards.

Example:

16:00 friday LAN opening. ID needed to prove your age, age limit 14 (or 16) need to be 18 to play 18 rated games.

18:00 internett shut of, food beeing handed out.

18:30 internett back upp.

21:30 internett off, drinks and snacks beeing handed out.

22:00 internett back upp.

00:00 internett shut of, sleep time. Anyone trying to keep gaming or making to much noise gets thrown out.

08:00 saturday morning brekfeast

08:30 internett back upp.

10:30 internett down, movie time. Showing 2-3 different movies inn different areas or having other activites (like hid and seek etc. are popular activities, lol weird)

13:30 internett back upp

16:00 internett down, dinner time

16:30 internett back upp

20:00 internett down, showers open

21:00 food again

21:30 internett back upp

00:00 internett down, time to sleep.

I think you get it, its my way of trying to make bigger LAN arangements more healthy. Giving people food, breaks, time for toilet and hygiene. Also having age limits only letting people old enough to play the game play it. Feedback is "its nice to have fun gaming with friends without all those kids whining and ruining the game for uss". The most comon feedback for people playing 16-18rated games or online games is this.

And weird thing is. Even if the entry fee is more expensive then normal (almost twice normal amount to cover rent of the place and food) more people shows upp to these LAN events then to the ones where its just:

08:00 friday - 00:00 sunday, open LAN, responsible for your own food and hygiene, no age limit.

I`m also holding presentations for game development students. Telling them my story, my views on it. And try to get them to understand how important it is to take gaming addiction seriously. But at the same time encourage them to keep doing what they do to get on their good side.

@prime hehehehe youre not the first one to say that and you wont be the last. No, I wont start gaming again. Even if I see others play online mmo`s inn front of me wich sometimes happens, especially when going on home visits to people who want to talk to me. And they have to "finish" gaming before they can talk to me. Waiting 15-60mins for them to find time for me. Just sitting there patiently, after all I`m there to listen.

Some of them think they can disprove gaming addiction, and they go full frontal atack on me. And then they get caught completely of guard when I dont defend myself at all, but just listen. If they ask me a question I just answer that I`m not there to tell them they have a problem, I`m not there to judge them, I`m there to listen. And if they want to share something with me to lessen the burden they obviously have, then go ahead.

Telling them that its difficult to be honest with themselfes, and only they know if they have a problem or not. If they dont have a problem then why do they want to talk to me? If they dont have a problem I got nothing to do there. After all its not a problem right? And if its not a problem why do they even feel like they have to defend their gaming habbits? If they are happy with life as it is, why do they feel the need to talk to me..... A gaming addict?

If they turn angry or violent I stay completely calm and says "I`ve been through so much mental pain and physical pain, nothing you can do to me can hurt me."

And wait for them to calm down. So far I`ve only had 1 person I havent been able to have a proper conversation with, I`ve met about 30 male teenagers now. They normally contact me on mail, beeing either extremely shy or extremely aggresive. Then after sending a few mails back and forth most of them ask to meet me IRL. While others stop sending emails and I never hear from them again.

My addiction to gaming nearly killed me, it has killed some of my "gaming friends". Suicide is painless.

I see the madness everywhere, I remember the pain and feel the urge to game every day. I accept and welcome these thoughts and feelings since they remind me why I cant play games.

With my life demanding more time I have to cut down on my voulenteer work. No more home visits, stop going to schools and avoid all media.

I`m going to quit everything exept, holding presentations for game development students, setting upp suggestions for LAN arangements and atending conferenses or hold presentations for shrink students/shrinks.

I`ve cut down my time spendt on this drastically lately.

I`m looking for a car, I`m taking the theoretical drivers license test inn 1-2 weeks. Starting to take practical driving lessons soon as well. Trying to find a jobb still, but having a car would solve that problem and make me mobile enough to get a jobb easily, I`m not picky. Trying to plan the moving out part, but its difficult not knowing when I`ll have the drivers license and a car. I practise guitar, and a IRL friend is teaching me drums. Sadly after 5-6 hours practise I`m better then him on drums allready and would love to take drum lessons, so I have to find out where I can get that as well. Also the last month I`ve started reading..... ALOT. 1 book on 2 days depending on how many pages it is. Theres so much great literature.

On top of all of this my lovely butterfly cichlids got sick, and 2 males and 1 female died, only got 1 female left after doing everything I could to save them :(

http://akvaforum.no/profile.cfm?id=1925

Those are the ones.

So after 1 month of battling disease, saving all of the other fish I have with heavy medication, I`m trying to find new fish. I`ve started reading so much about fishes to find cool and peacefull fishes, that I`ve started remembering their latin names lol. This aquarium hobby is awesome, I saved a entire year to afford a "bigg" top quality aquarium, and havent regretted it once :)

Why cant I ever post short posts? I got to much to say I guess..... hehe :)

And olganon has somehow turned into a way for me to get things of my chest. I`m so thankfull that you take your time to read what I type. Thank you

vesalian.prime
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Wow, norski. I had no idea.

Wow, norski. I had no idea. Sounds like you are making a difference.

Cheers,

VP

Perhaps a man who is worthy of the name should put aside this question of how long he will live ..., and turn his attention to this instead, to how he can live the best life possible in the time that is granted to him
Marcus Aurelius

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OH Norski, sorry to hear

OH Norski, sorry to hear about your beautiful fish. I love aquariums. Very peaceful and soothing.

Big hugs.

danfeb
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Norski wrote: But I wont
Norski wrote:

But I wont give upp, I wont give upp until the day I`m dead and burried, NEVER. I have to try and do my best.

I dont mind video games, its ok for them to exist. But the addicting ones, oh god I`d do alot to remove them from the surface of earth.

As I said, its not the game that is addicting, its the hidden mechanics.

My plan, is to "infiltrate" the gaming companies.

Atm as well as warning people about the dangers, I promote healthy gaming. Yeah, I promote gaming as a hobby. Because it has opened the doors to co-operating with game developers. And if I keep "promoting games" they will let me know to much for their own good.

I`ll spend months, years even just collecting everything theyve tell me and let me know. And when the time is right I turn on them using it all.

Sorry to be blunt Norski, but you are way over your head. Go chill outside and come back when you can be more reasonable. There is no such thing as inherently "addictive" mechanisms, because these mechanisms themselves are not conscious; they simply are, like water running downhills. Is water good? Most people would say yes, but they are wrong. Water in your lungs or under the floors definitely would not be good--it's the context that matters. Similarly with games, they have been put inside a context of making money from addicts, but it's equally feasible to award players for staying away from a game. The mechanisms are the same; the crucial difference is to find developers--they do exist but might take some effort to find--willing to do such a thing or at least let go of the mainstream model.

While not without a few valid points, this thread contains way too much blame. There are people doing way worse things than gaming companies are, and there always will be. If you want to fix things, start with understanding this fact. After all, addiction is about relationship. Relationship with whom, or with what, you may ask? Think over it. But all this negative emotion will only burn a bigger hole in your heart.

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danfeb wrote: But all this
danfeb wrote:

But all this negative emotion will only burn a bigger hole in your heart.

Although I do feel that the things that gaming companies do deliberately harm people, I agree with the sentiment above, at least for myself. For me, recovery from my negative patterns that drove me to addiction must come first. Otherwise, I'll just get addicted to my advocacy and spiral into the same negative unsustainable crap, even though I'm using that spiral to do good. I can't say if this applies to anyone else--but for me, right now, recovery must come first, and that takes enough of my energy that I can't really do advocacy. I'm glad some people are doing it, but I hope also that it's not at the expense of their own recovery.

Not going to make that judgement for you, Norski. I'm impressed with what you are doing, and I also hope that you are well. :) Same for everyone who is here. Best wishes.

I am a recovering computer game and gambling addict. My recovery birthday: On May 6, 2012 I quit games and began working a program of recovery through OLGA No computer games or slot games for me since December 12, 2012. No solitaire games with real cards since June 2013.

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Enforcing age restrictions

Enforcing age restrictions would be a good start. My son was playing Grand Theft Auto when he was 12 and its an age 18 rated game. Of course I didn't pay much attention...

Norski wrote:

What I want, is like with alcohol and tobacco, labels and law enforced age limits. So people can choose themself when they are 16-18 if they want to play those games with the addicting label on them. This is what I want, making people aware and capable to make their own desisions. So that kids aged below 16-18 that arent matured enough to understand what addiction are and the dangers dont have to be lured into a addicting game.

Olga/non member since Dec. 2008 Check out my latest video on Gaming Addiction and public awareness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6JZLnQ29o

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To be fair, I will add that

To be fair, I will add that there is nothing wrong with enforcing age limits and what not. Just remember, however, that laws is only a reflection of what people already can or cannot do; it does not empower you in the first place.

Norski
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danfeb wrote: Sorry to be
danfeb wrote:

Sorry to be blunt Norski, but you are way over your head. Go chill outside and come back with something more reasonable.

While not without a few valid points, this thread contains way too much blame. There are people doing way worse things than gaming companies are, and there always will be. If you want to fix things, start with understanding this fact. After all, addiction is about relationship. Relationship with whom, or with what, you may ask? Think over it. But all this negative emotion will only burn a bigger hole in your heart.

I`m still going to therapy meeting with a shrink once every 2 weeks. And I do discuss these things with him and my feelings and thoughts around it. I do belive he would tell me if he thought it had a negative impact on me.

I wrote inn a earlier post, I`m slowing down. And one of the reasons are that I cant keep going at this speed doing this much, I`ll burn out.

People doing worse things? Yeah, I know. But if no one cares to try and make a change. Who will? If everyone was thinking like you do, nothing would happen inn the world.

Nothing personal but I dont care much for thoughts like that.

And why do people talk to me like I am about to start gaming again? As if my way to deal with my addiction is the wrong way. What do you know about me as a person? Lets see, this summer I`ve been gamefree for 2 years. I`m getting the drivers license, I`m looking to buy a car, I got friends, I even got a date with one of the kindest girls I`ve ever known, I`ve learned basic drumming and I`m getting better at guitar, I`ve learned alot about fishes and my aquarium is awesome! I`ve gotten to know myself and what I am capable of and my limits, and how to cope with my limitations.

I dream big, but never start something I know I cant complete. I started working inn this organisation to make a difference, to change things. And I cant stop until I feel satisfied. I have realistical goals, I know that most of my vissions most likely wont happen, but its not impossible. Even if I fail completely and nothing changes I`ll be satisfied as long as I know I did my best. I havent done my best yet, I can do more!

If I do my best and fails, atleast its not because I didnt try and didnt care. And some things I cant change, but for now, I wont accept this because allready I can see changes happening. Its begun, and I have to see this through. Not to the end, just until I know its no point inn doing what I do anymore because it wont change anything.

I wont ever never stop, until theres nothing I can do anymore!

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Norski I'm incredibly proud

Norski I'm incredibly proud to know you. You give me hope for the future. Thanks for the information you've posted and the work you've already done.

Twelve miles into the forest, 12 miles out.
Left my poisonous game July 4, 2012. Left online communities June 4, 2013.

vesalian.prime
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Norski wrote: And why do
Norski wrote:

And why do people talk to me like I am about to start gaming again? As if my way to deal with my addiction is the wrong way.

As one of the people who voiced my reservations, I assure you:
if it keeps you clean it is the right way for you.

It reminds me of a friend's method to quit smoking: he deliberately kept a pack of smokes in his pocket. So if he felt a craving, he would face it head on and make the decision not to light up. He had no problem dealing with surprise temptation since the pack of cigarettes was always in his pocket and he was used to saying no. I think it helped him to face his addiction head on.

Me, I can't do that. I need to remove all temptation, find new people places and things, and when I get tempted by surprise, call my sponsor. To each their own.

Perhaps a man who is worthy of the name should put aside this question of how long he will live ..., and turn his attention to this instead, to how he can live the best life possible in the time that is granted to him
Marcus Aurelius

danfeb
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Norski wrote: I`m still
Norski wrote:

I`m still going ...

If everyone was thinking like you do, nothing would happen inn the world.

... nothing I can do anymore!

No one is trying to stop you, but I disagree with how you're approaching this. A part of changing the world involves allowing people to voice their concerns, and that was all I did. Please enlighten us what exactly is wrong with my thinking. Did you even read my post?

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My current addiction was one

My current addiction was one of the games he mentioned League of Legends. My former addiction before that was from a company that he mentioned which was funcom their game called Bloodline Champions.

I agree the companies blatantly try to use biology and how your brain works to encourage you to do a behavior pattern, which rewires your brain to need it, then once it is rewired it becomes that much harder to stop playing. Takes alot of effort to rewire your brain to not need the game any more.

One thing I found interesting is that all the games you mentioned have occultic themes. I actually dived into learning about occultism, not just reading ABOUT it. I actually was finding the books and organizations that teach it. I got to tell you that the makers of these games put occultic teaching into the games in a way, not just the occultic images. Like one teaching to be a mage is to reach a higher spiritual self, from avoiding desires. It is safe to say that playing video games is a desire. So these game makers "curse" people by encouraging people to endulge in their desires, and making the game the most desire fulfilling as possible.

Norski
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danfeb wrote: Norski
danfeb wrote:
Norski wrote:

I`m still going ...

If everyone was thinking like you do, nothing would happen inn the world.

... nothing I can do anymore!

No one is trying to stop you, but I disagree with how you're approaching this. A part of changing the world involves allowing people to voice their concerns, and that was all I did. Please enlighten us what exactly is wrong with my thinking. Did you even read my post?

Yes I did read it but obviously missunderstood it.

Given it some great deal of thought. But cant understand your way of thinking so I stop discussing it here. *draws line*

Its no point for me to try and discuss anything when I dont understand you :)

Thanks for all replies. This turned out a interesting thread.

I like to mention, olganon is the one place I feel safe to openly state my opinions and thoughts. Thank you for letting me :)

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If it keeps you gaming

If it keeps you gaming Norski go for it. We do not have to agree.

I was going to go on a rant about casinos, online gambling and lotteries... But this is not the place :)

Olga/non member since Dec. 2008 Check out my latest video on Gaming Addiction and public awareness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6JZLnQ29o

starryeyed
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Moved.

Moved.

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