I find the article full of half-truths, though one sentence summed it up entirely: "The game will absorb your life if you let it".
The article was written from a very specific perspective, not to be taken as gospel This is the disenchanted hard-core gamer. There are many other walks of life in the game. An interesting perspective, nonetheless.
When Dark Ages of Camelot was ready to go live there were many folks that felt Sony fell short in many areas, never listened to the customers and destroyed EQ and from what they had heard about Mythic Entertainment (DAoC) this was to change and the game would be vastly different and more customer friendly.
People complain about Mythic now. The nerfs, the customer service, the lack of attention (they had no GMs online to help you when I played...ever...its all done through emails and phone calls, I don't think that has changed). I would hazard that any computer game that attempts what Sony and Mythic did to the extent they did will always have people complaining about the same things.
Thing is, customers will always complain about lack of service. I work for a company that is known world wide for customer service and there are people still complain they don't get what they want, even after the customer service people go through great lengths to correct a situation within their power. EQ and DAoC had two major difference. Time they had been around and complexity. EQ is far more complex in game play, graphics, etc then DAoC will ever be. That's why people still play EQ after 3 years while DAoC tapered off after 6 months. The longer something is around, the more complex, and the larger the customer population, there will be be more complaints...but I don't see EQ any different then any large corporation. Sometimes they do a good job helping customers and sometimes not. My advice to people who were unhappy with Sony...stop sending them money. Otherwise expect that you wont get everything you want because you can't always please the masses.
I've read so many rants about SOE and shoddy customer service, so I decided to take a look around about a month or so back. I checked in at the Better Business Bureau to look at this unsatisfactory mark they've given Sony. Yep, they do indeed have a poor mark for customer service from the BBB. This is based on THREE COMPLAINTS IN TWO YEARS. Three. Of 433,000 subscriptions, they've had three complaints. And people honestly use this as fodder to complain about customer service.
Hoo boy.
Lisa
(btw, I just checked in at the bbb website again, and it's down. For anyone who wants to look around, the address is www.bbb.org. When it's up, anyhow.)
I think that the BBB pretty much has outlived its usefulness. Pre-internet, the gathering of information from many many people and putting it all in one place was clearly quite difficult, and the BBB did that. As to SOE customer service, just read the guild boards, the server boards, and read guildchat in game. The stories are plentiful. Of course you can't always believe what you read either
Art by Culurien GoldleafEscaped from the Skinner Box 20 October 2002
Quote:Actually, gamers are not in my opinion, the "type" of people who would report SOE to the BBB.
Actually, you might be surprised. The "gamers" I have met in person tend to be intelligent folks with good jobs, and do know about the BBB. Those type of folks do write to Sony to give them the opportunity to correct it (as opposed to running to the BBB) However they are also the ones to generally pose legitimate complaints and often get decent response. I have seen a few things go uncorrected that should have been but every business will do that at some point depending on how serious they view the problem.
Try to give some gamers the benefit of the doubt, Liz. You might find you will win more people over to your views as long as you make them feel welcome. By making generalized statements about those who play online games, you might unknowingly alienate someone who might otherwise benefit from this site.
I'm doing well, thanks for asking! I rolled into Ohio on Saturday, I now live here :o) Staying with friends until my husband and I get a house. It's been hectic, to be sure!
I differ on the "type" of people gamers are, for different reasons from Hawk. Gamers tend to invest large amounts of time and money in their games. They demand and expect perfection, and can be brutal in their reviews of games and makers if a game doesn't meet their expectations. Often times, games live or die based on what gamers say.
To kinda echo what Hawk has brought up: Many, many people proclaim to have serious problems with Sony and how they do things. However, the angry are always the most vocal, as the content have no reason to speak. Those who have legitimate reasons are very likely to go through appropriate channels - customer service, the chain of command, or failing these, watchdog agencies. This isn't the case here. SOE's critics are many, and they're loud, but they aren't troubled by doing things constructively. They complain for the sake of complaining. (This isn't to say that there aren't legitimate problems or concerns. This is only to say that most of those REAL problems are indeed dealt with if presented in a proper manner.)
Quote:Try to give some gamers the benefit of the doubt, Liz. You might find you will win more people over to your views as long as you make them feel welcome. By making generalized statements about those who play online games, you might unknowingly alienate someone who might otherwise benefit from this site. I'm not here to pussyfoot. I am here to give a a true view from a family member of a gamer who has paid dearly and lost her loved one because of the game. I am not the only family member to feel this way. The gamer leaves us to follow their passion with the games, and we are left holding the bag and all responsibilites in the real world. It is not fun and I do not like loosing my son to a game or to anything else.
I don't see active gamers accepting the responsibility for what they have done to their relationships with their family members and loved ones in real life, while they obsessively play the game. It is not easy for a person to watch their loved one get swallowed up in a gaming hole and not be able to do anything about it.
"I don't see active gamers accepting the responsibility for what they have done to their relationships with their family members and loved ones in real life, while they obsessively play the game."
This happens to just a portion of active gamers, and an even smaller portion of that number are in denial about how they affect their families and friends. Those of us who can control our lives and recreations are being painted with the same brush, and I would think that many of us have made some headway in showing you that gamers aren't evil ;o)
But you make a good point. People have to be responsible for the choices they make. Thankfully, I see a great deal of gamers doing so. Unfortunately, I still see a lot of ex-gamers crying that EverQuest stole their spouses from them. Hopefully, for their own sake, that will change.
Thanks for pointing out the difference. Just semantics, I suppose, but I wanted to clear it up. If you've ever called a rare casual drinker an alcoholic, you know the kind of response you can get when you mislabel someone :o)
I am sorry for the loss of your son and I understand you have been left picking up the pieces. However, your statement was a generalization based on your personal experience with one "gamer". I don't call myself a "gamer" yet I know I actively play so I would assume you would call me such. Active is subjective too as I have gone as long as 2 months without playing while at other times I might play every night if there isn't anything going I wish to do at that time. I don't neglect my family or friends, never opt for game over something fun (or necessary) with them. I would hazard though that you would consider me a gamer and therefore wanted to let you know that I do indeed know about such things as BBB
It like generalizing between social drinkers and alcoholics. Social casual drinkers are not in the same realm as alcoholics yet you want to prevent them from becoming irresponsible drinkers. The best defense is prevention, especially for habits that haven't developed yet besides it's better to stop it before it becomes a serious problem. There are many "gamers" that visit here who might not have a problem yet, but they can get key information that will keep them from going down that road. I would think you would want to reach them all, problem or no, in hopes of reaching someone who might have otherwise followed in your son's footsteps.
The key to prevention is education. Putting a label on them that negative and untrue might only push them away. Professionally, I educating the general public on an issue close to my heart and that has always been one of our rules. Make friends with those you wish to reach, don't aliante. I have found that to work very well and I reach more people that way so I'm just trying to help out your cause with advice I learned years ago and have found to work quite effectivly.
Providing a different name would help because they you are specifing what kind of gamer you are talking about.
This is a great article! Written from somebody in the know, who has been there.
Tosha
I find the article full of half-truths, though one sentence summed it up entirely: "The game will absorb your life if you let it".
The article was written from a very specific perspective, not to be taken as gospel This is the disenchanted hard-core gamer. There are many other walks of life in the game. An interesting perspective, nonetheless.
Lisa
When Dark Ages of Camelot was ready to go live there were many folks that felt Sony fell short in many areas, never listened to the customers and destroyed EQ and from what they had heard about Mythic Entertainment (DAoC) this was to change and the game would be vastly different and more customer friendly.
People complain about Mythic now. The nerfs, the customer service, the lack of attention (they had no GMs online to help you when I played...ever...its all done through emails and phone calls, I don't think that has changed). I would hazard that any computer game that attempts what Sony and Mythic did to the extent they did will always have people complaining about the same things.
Thing is, customers will always complain about lack of service. I work for a company that is known world wide for customer service and there are people still complain they don't get what they want, even after the customer service people go through great lengths to correct a situation within their power. EQ and DAoC had two major difference. Time they had been around and complexity. EQ is far more complex in game play, graphics, etc then DAoC will ever be. That's why people still play EQ after 3 years while DAoC tapered off after 6 months. The longer something is around, the more complex, and the larger the customer population, there will be be more complaints...but I don't see EQ any different then any large corporation. Sometimes they do a good job helping customers and sometimes not. My advice to people who were unhappy with Sony...stop sending them money. Otherwise expect that you wont get everything you want because you can't always please the masses.
*nods emphatically*
I've read so many rants about SOE and shoddy customer service, so I decided to take a look around about a month or so back. I checked in at the Better Business Bureau to look at this unsatisfactory mark they've given Sony. Yep, they do indeed have a poor mark for customer service from the BBB. This is based on THREE COMPLAINTS IN TWO YEARS. Three. Of 433,000 subscriptions, they've had three complaints. And people honestly use this as fodder to complain about customer service.
Hoo boy.
Lisa
(btw, I just checked in at the bbb website again, and it's down. For anyone who wants to look around, the address is www.bbb.org. When it's up, anyhow.)
Hey Lisa,
How are you doing?
Actually, gamers are not in my opinion, the "type" of people who would report SOE to the BBB.
I suspect a lot of them do not even know what the BBB is.
Actually, I never even thought of it, until you mentioned it, here.
Liz
Liz Woolley
I think that the BBB pretty much has outlived its usefulness. Pre-internet, the gathering of information from many many people and putting it all in one place was clearly quite difficult, and the BBB did that.
As to SOE customer service, just read the guild boards, the server boards, and read guildchat in game. The stories are plentiful. Of course you can't always believe what you read either
Art by Culurien GoldleafEscaped from the Skinner Box 20 October 2002
Quote:Actually, gamers are not in my opinion, the "type" of people who would report SOE to the BBB.
Actually, you might be surprised. The "gamers" I have met in person tend to be intelligent folks with good jobs, and do know about the BBB. Those type of folks do write to Sony to give them the opportunity to correct it (as opposed to running to the BBB) However they are also the ones to generally pose legitimate complaints and often get decent response. I have seen a few things go uncorrected that should have been but every business will do that at some point depending on how serious they view the problem.
Try to give some gamers the benefit of the doubt, Liz. You might find you will win more people over to your views as long as you make them feel welcome. By making generalized statements about those who play online games, you might unknowingly alienate someone who might otherwise benefit from this site.
Hey Liz,
I'm doing well, thanks for asking! I rolled into Ohio on Saturday, I now live here :o) Staying with friends until my husband and I get a house. It's been hectic, to be sure!
I differ on the "type" of people gamers are, for different reasons from Hawk. Gamers tend to invest large amounts of time and money in their games. They demand and expect perfection, and can be brutal in their reviews of games and makers if a game doesn't meet their expectations. Often times, games live or die based on what gamers say.
To kinda echo what Hawk has brought up: Many, many people proclaim to have serious problems with Sony and how they do things. However, the angry are always the most vocal, as the content have no reason to speak. Those who have legitimate reasons are very likely to go through appropriate channels - customer service, the chain of command, or failing these, watchdog agencies. This isn't the case here. SOE's critics are many, and they're loud, but they aren't troubled by doing things constructively. They complain for the sake of complaining. (This isn't to say that there aren't legitimate problems or concerns. This is only to say that most of those REAL problems are indeed dealt with if presented in a proper manner.)
*plink plink*
Lisa
Quote:Try to give some gamers the benefit of the doubt, Liz. You might find you will win more people over to your views as long as you make them feel welcome. By making generalized statements about those who play online games, you might unknowingly alienate someone who might otherwise benefit from this site. I'm not here to pussyfoot. I am here to give a a true view from a family member of a gamer who has paid dearly and lost her loved one because of the game. I am not the only family member to feel this way. The gamer leaves us to follow their passion with the games, and we are left holding the bag and all responsibilites in the real world. It is not fun and I do not like loosing my son to a game or to anything else.
I don't see active gamers accepting the responsibility for what they have done to their relationships with their family members and loved ones in real life, while they obsessively play the game. It is not easy for a person to watch their loved one get swallowed up in a gaming hole and not be able to do anything about it.
Edited by: lizwool at: 1/29/03 11:39:50 am
Liz Woolley
"I don't see active gamers accepting the responsibility for what they have done to their relationships with their family members and loved ones in real life, while they obsessively play the game."
This happens to just a portion of active gamers, and an even smaller portion of that number are in denial about how they affect their families and friends. Those of us who can control our lives and recreations are being painted with the same brush, and I would think that many of us have made some headway in showing you that gamers aren't evil ;o)
But you make a good point. People have to be responsible for the choices they make. Thankfully, I see a great deal of gamers doing so. Unfortunately, I still see a lot of ex-gamers crying that EverQuest stole their spouses from them. Hopefully, for their own sake, that will change.
Lisa
Lisa,
This organization has been created for gamers who do have serious issues with their gaming, and the families and friends of those people.
When I speak of active gamers, I am addressing the gamer who has a problem.
I absolutely believe there are "social" gamers just as there are "social" drinkers.
I wish there was a good word to use, to differentiate between the types of gamers - maybe a gamic?
Liz
Liz Woolley
Gameaholics? ;o)
Thanks for pointing out the difference. Just semantics, I suppose, but I wanted to clear it up. If you've ever called a rare casual drinker an alcoholic, you know the kind of response you can get when you mislabel someone :o)
Lisa
I am sorry for the loss of your son and I understand you have been left picking up the pieces. However, your statement was a generalization based on your personal experience with one "gamer". I don't call myself a "gamer" yet I know I actively play so I would assume you would call me such. Active is subjective too as I have gone as long as 2 months without playing while at other times I might play every night if there isn't anything going I wish to do at that time. I don't neglect my family or friends, never opt for game over something fun (or necessary) with them. I would hazard though that you would consider me a gamer and therefore wanted to let you know that I do indeed know about such things as BBB
It like generalizing between social drinkers and alcoholics. Social casual drinkers are not in the same realm as alcoholics yet you want to prevent them from becoming irresponsible drinkers. The best defense is prevention, especially for habits that haven't developed yet besides it's better to stop it before it becomes a serious problem. There are many "gamers" that visit here who might not have a problem yet, but they can get key information that will keep them from going down that road. I would think you would want to reach them all, problem or no, in hopes of reaching someone who might have otherwise followed in your son's footsteps.
The key to prevention is education. Putting a label on them that negative and untrue might only push them away. Professionally, I educating the general public on an issue close to my heart and that has always been one of our rules. Make friends with those you wish to reach, don't aliante. I have found that to work very well and I reach more people that way so I'm just trying to help out your cause with advice I learned years ago and have found to work quite effectivly.
Providing a different name would help because they you are specifing what kind of gamer you are talking about.
Edited by: Hawkfeather Rowe at: 1/29/03 4:27:03 pm